AHC: Strong Danish, Portuguese and Dutch colonization in Canada and Northeastern US

Feel free to choose or create PODs, but the challenge is: make Canada (or at least a great part of it) and the Northeastern region of US (states of Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachusets, New York and etc.) territories of strong colonization by Denmark-Norway, Portugal and the Netherlands.

However, there are some conditions for this scenario:

- The POD for Danish-Norwegian and Portuguese colonization must happen before 18th century. Bonus points if the POD happens during the 16th century, in the apex of the Age of Discovery.

- The POD for Dutch colonization must happen also before 18th century, in a way that prevents further exploration attempts by England and France in those areas.

- Last but not least: all those colonies must somehow survive to the present day, either as independent countries or overseas departments/provinces.

Some may say it all seems implausible... Well, that's why this kind of thread is called Alternate History Challenge ;) Good luck
 
POD for stronger Danish Colonization could be a weaker / Nonexistent North African Ivory trade (ie. not reflurishing in ~1260 with transsarahan trade routes, after having collapsed in the late 9th century with the eradication of the North African Elephant), from the reasoning that the Arctic Ivory (Whale tusks) stays a worthwhile trading resource, keeping the trade route sending food to Greenland and Ivory (and fur) over Iceland to Denmark and from there distributed to the rest of europe, economically viable. This in turn keeps the Greenlandic Norse settlements stable with some immigration interest, even if mainly traders, fur tappers and whalers, and able to keep the semi-secret exploration trips to New Foundland for timber the size needed to supply strong enough boats to keep the trade going (and keep whaling), which Denmark can use as a stepping stone when the party starts.

Depending on how things shape out Denmark might well end up sitting on Hudson Bay area, and in length most of Eastern Canada, even if more by recognized law, than actual fact.0
 
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According to Wikipedia:

In 1499 and 1500, Portuguese mariners João Fernandes Lavrador and Pêro de Barcelos explored and mapped the coast, the former's name appearing as "Labrador" on topographical maps of the period. Based on the Treaty of Tordesillas, the Portuguese Crown claimed it had territorial rights in the area visited by John Cabot in 1497 and 1498. Subsequently, in 1501 and 1502 the Corte-Real brothers explored Newfoundland and Labrador, claiming them as part of the Portuguese Empire. In 1506, king Manuel I of Portugal created taxes for the cod fisheries in Newfoundland waters. João Álvares Fagundes and Pêro de Barcelos established seasonal fishing outposts in Newfoundland and Nova Scotia around 1521, and older Portuguese settlements may have existed.

It's weird that Portugal never showed strong interest in colonizing the region, since its much closer geographically than almost every other colony Portugal ever had around the world. Is there any explanation for that? How to make it different?
 

Lusitania

Donor
According to Wikipedia:



It's weird that Portugal never showed strong interest in colonizing the region, since its much closer geographically than almost every other colony Portugal ever had around the world. Is there any explanation for that? How to make it different?

When Columbus discovered the New World the Portuguese and Spanish signed the Treaty of Tordesillas in 1993. Dividing the world between them Spain received all land 200 miles west of Azores while Portugal received everything east.

The Portuguese and Spanish were not interested in Northeast they were interested in getting to India. The Portuguese had discovered the way around Africa the year before and knew they could get to India so they had no desire for North East America.

Spain spent all its early efforts trying to get around America to also get to India and China. The British and French only half heartedly settled the area. It only became profitable with the fur trade otherwise America was an obstacle to the desired trade with India and China.

With the Portuguese discovery of Brazil in 1500 and the profitable sugar plantations their focus was sealed south America and east to India.
 
Well, in the case of the Dutch, they did control portions of North America in their New Netherland colony. However, they couldn't convince that many people to settle, partly because (unlike in England) they granted their religious minorities considerable tolerance. If they had adopted an English-style policy of little toleration at home but freedom abroad, perhaps they could have peopled New Netherland enough to be a threat to the English colonies rather than vice versa.
 
So, then, which PODs would we need to make areas like Newfoundland, Lavrador, Nova Scotia and so on viable and attractive in face of the Portuguese overseas expansion? Same for Dutch and Danish interest.
 

Lusitania

Donor
So, then, which PODs would we need to make areas like Newfoundland, Lavrador, Nova Scotia and so on viable and attractive in face of the Portuguese overseas expansion? Same for Dutch and Danish interest.

These areas were at first not even desirable for English and French, and as others have said most of early English colonist coming to America were seeking religious freedom which the Portuguese did not have.

For the Portuguese these areas were excellent fishing grounds but due to the climate and limited resources there was no desire or interest. They were squarely focused on Africa and bypassing the Islamic stranglehold on the trade from India and Orient.

The weather also played a large part in their dislike for the area. were it not for the Natives who helped the early French settlers survive by showing them that eating bark could fight scurvy. Also they showed the English settlers how to grow food (corn).

Also there was no great overcrowding in Portugal in 1500. A POD might of been no black plague which would of caused Portugal and other European countries population to be almost double what they were by 1500. Thus providing greater need for new lands.
 

Tamandaré

Banned
Don't know about the Danes and the Dutch, but the Portuguese had bigger fish to fry and barely big enough of a platter.

Brazil has Brazilwood, Drogas do Sertão, Sugar Cane, tobacco, and gold later on. In the first century they had to fight the French and then the Dutch often. I think it was only by 1600 or so that Brazil was pretty much incontestable portuguese turf.

Angola and Moçambique are good entreposts and have their own resouces, including slaves for the sugarcane plantations.

The Eastern Indies have, well, the big eastern indies spice trade route. The Portuguese had to fight nearly everyone with naval ocean power (Mamluks, Ottomans, Oman, etc) in the area to control it, and even then they lost so much manpower and money in those wars I'm not sure it was worth it in the end.

Idiotic adventures in North Africa and the Iberian Union did pretty bad for them, too.

Considering their manpower constraints, the portuguese did a lot with the little they had. I don't see any value in Canada or northeastern USA at the time.
 

norse

Banned
So, then, which PODs would we need to make areas like Newfoundland, Lavrador, Nova Scotia and so on viable and attractive in face of the Portuguese overseas expansion? Same for Dutch and Danish interest.

These areas were at first not even desirable for English and French, and as others have said most of early English colonist coming to America were seeking religious freedom which the Portuguese did not have.

the land is hospitable for scandanavians any any inuit they are allied with. what were scandanavian and inuit relations like after 1500?

if you find find a way for the scandanavians to colonize the land from hudson bay to labrador and newfoundland that would work. a trade netwrok in furs and ivory sounds like it has some value
 

Redbeard

Banned
In 1619 King Christian IV sent an expedition lead by Jens Munk to the Hudson Bay area (to find the NW passage). The expedition had to stay the winter over at Hudson Bay (Churchill River estuary), but most died of scurvy, only 3 out of 64 returned to Bergen. and Jens Munk only through the Kings personal intervention escaped a death penalty for wasting the Kings resources.

But I guess a few butterflies would be enough for Jens Munk and a few more crewmembers to return to tell about the possibilities of Hudson Bay. After all the British and Dutch in OTL saw the potential soon after.

By the early 1620s Denmark-Norway still wasn't bleed pale in the 30-years war so I guess King Christian would have had the resources to invest massively in North American colonization. If it even keeps him from intervening in the 30-years war it might be a major PoD for Northern Europe.

Regards

Redbeard

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jens_Munk
 
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