AHC: Start American Involvement in World War II in the Atlantic

Hm, if the USS Texas goes down, would it be possible for the US to warn that any submarine spotted will be considered hostile unless they surrender to an inspection by USN/USCG vessels? After a couple more submarines are found and destroyed, Hitler is incensed enough to declare war.

11 September 41 Roosevelt took a step further than that with the 'Shoot on Sight order:

http://ww2cartoons.org/sept-1941-roosevelt-orders-navy-to-shoot-on-sight/

I've not been able to confirm, but its claimed this was one of the several incidents when Hitler discussed a DoW on the US.
 
Another possibility is one South American government or another resists Brit/US pressure to align against Germany & actually starts hosting submarines or allows some VLR reconissance aircraft to refuel after a cross Atlantic mission. Maybe even German ground crew are dropped off by cargo sub runs. Worse this nation stats passing intel to the Germans & aids their intel efforts. When the US or Britain intervene on the pro German nations territory Hitler decides he must stand up for his Allies & declares war on the US.

would the Vichy regime be both more likely to follow this course and more threatening if it did?

(Dakar on Atlantic was one of the mooted bases, along with Bizerte and Aleppo)
 

GarethC

Donor
This is plausible, but what would the US do if Deutschland escaped undamaged?
I have to say it's not very plausible at all, but I thought it made a good read, which is at least as important.

If Deutschland escapes, then the US response remains broadly similar - I was moving the 1940 Vinson act forward (since the provision of carriers and cruisers is defensible for raider-hunting).

The US' goal will still not be to go to war with Germany. Britain and France are doing that just fine. The aim is to deter German attacks on US shipping going to Europe, and to avoid the loss of face due to coming second in naval clashes. With that in mind, both seeking monetary reparations for the attack on Flint and James, and also loosening the RoE for the Neutrality Patrol to allow US ships to fire first on any combatant at the CO's discretion as required to defend US lives and/or property (with the understanding that German warships are by definition a threat to such) are actions that FDR will take.
 

jahenders

Banned
About the only way I can see that in the 30s is if the Germans start sinking US shipping before they even invade Poland and are at war with UK/France, which would make no sense whatsoever.

However, I think the active US involvement COULD certainly start in the Atlantic. The key POD would be for Japan to NOT attack the US in Dec 41. If they don't, the US IS likely to get drawn in, but it'll most likely be related to Germany and, hence, the Atlantic.

Find a unique and interesting way to start American involvement in World War II on the European and Atlantic front instead of the Attack on Pearl Harbor in the 1930's.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Schwamberger
Another possibility is one South American government or another resists Brit/US pressure to align against Germany & actually starts hosting submarines or allows some VLR reconissance aircraft to refuel after a cross Atlantic mission. Maybe even German ground crew are dropped off by cargo sub runs. Worse this nation stats passing intel to the Germans & aids their intel efforts. When the US or Britain intervene on the pro German nations territory Hitler decides he must stand up for his Allies & declares war on the US.

would the Vichy regime be both more likely to follow this course and more threatening if it did?

(Dakar on Atlantic was one of the mooted bases, along with Bizerte and Aleppo)

OTL Petain was loathe to see a single Axis soldier occupy another meter of French territory. German inquiries about basing maritime recon aircraft in Morroco were ignored. The effort to send supplies to Lybia via Tunisia were stonewalled at every step. Even when losing Syria to the Free French Petain dodged around any useful Axis assistance. Indo China was effectively lost to France in early 1941 with the Japanese occupation. Petain was extremely reluctant to lose even a cafe seat to another Axis soldier.

We'd need a PoD within Petains government, A major policy change & fairly early for France to allow Axis use of bases in unoccupied French territory.
 
Another possibility is one South American government or another resists Brit/US pressure to align against Germany & actually starts hosting submarines or allows some VLR reconissance aircraft to refuel after a cross Atlantic mission. Worse this nation stats passing intel to the Germans & aids their intel efforts.

would the Vichy regime be both more likely to follow this course and more threatening if it did?

We'd need a PoD within Petains government, A major policy change & fairly early for France to allow Axis use of bases in unoccupied French territory.

what kind of POD would you need for any South American country? maybe simpler to envision Spain joining Axis (albeit expensive)
 
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