AHC: Spread Judaism as Much as Possible Without Changes to Core Beliefs

[Isfendil]

Repost of title - AHC: Spread Judaism as Much as Possible Without (Highly Unusual) Changes to Core Beliefs.
A heavy emphasis on spreading it before Christianity takes off, bonus points if the necessity/conditions for Christianity is butterflied entirely.

I am studying for a steppe test and have been focusing a lot on the Khazars, mainly been reading Halevi's work (yes I know it's over glorification but it's part of the work and it inspired me). Two recent threads went up about the south semitic Jews (which is a subject very dear to my heart that I wish I had more material about).
I want us all to combine all we know about the history of our wonderful friends (or ancestors, in the case of some forumites) so that we can create a very feasible Jewish Wank. What do you all think?

 

[LSCatilina]

Repost of title - AHC: Spread Judaism as Much as Possible Without Changes to Core Beliefs.

That's going to be hard : every global religion had to adapt its beliefs in order to get accepted by various and different peoples. Heck, core beliefs of majors religion were actually made on their way becoming major religions.

If Judaism gets more globalized, it's a given that some parts of it would be unreckognizable.

I am studying for a steppe test and have been focusing a lot on the Khazars, mainly been reading Halevi's work (yes I know it's over glorification but it's part of the work and it inspired me).

Khazars may be a wrong start point. Pretty much as others Turkic or Mongol peoples, religion wasn't that a central institutions and either they adopted what dominated, either you had the personal adoptions of some beliefs without that focus on rooting it among their steppe confederation (Remember that Khazars were islamized before part of their immediate elite converted to some form of Judaism).

In a TL without Christianity, Judaism would have a fair chance with Middle-Eastern kingdoms (whom some converted IOTL) and Africano-Arab entities (as discussed in other threads).

What's interesting is that Judaism religious expension doesn't realy that much on a whole state converting : Judaism in Spain and Languedoc (to quote only two famous exemple of medieval european Judaism) managed to gather between 1% and 6% of the urban population : you could wank the way of Judaism trough urban communities being more widespread in a non-Christian Romania (it's suspected that some Romano-Barbarian peoples already knew some Jewish presence for exemple).

 

[DanMcCollum]

Maybe the Arabic Kingdom of Himyar or Ethiopia would be a better place to start? Himyar, in particular, is interesting since it had a royal dynasty that converted and made significant efforts to expand its influence. Both were also trading nations, meaning Judaism could expand along the trade routes of the Red Sea and Indian ocean.

 

[Vespasian]

Maybe the Arabic Kingdom of Himyar or Ethiopia would be a better place to start? Himyar, in particular, is interesting since it had a royal dynasty that converted and made significant efforts to expand its influence. Both were also trading nations, meaning Judaism could expand along the trade routes of the Red Sea and Indian ocean.

Yes, perhaps have Beta Israel conquer the Ethiopian Highlands somehow...

 

[Roger II]

The Rema says they're kosher.

 

[Napoleonrules]

The rule of thumb is all birds who don't eat meat are kosher. To my best knowledge turkeys don't eat meat.

 

[Petros >Peter Fergus<]

If Jewish settlers founded a New World colony, natural population growth would increase their numbers.

 

[Tom Colton]

Hasn't that already been achieved with Christia-[STONED ALONG WITH ST. STEPHEN]

 

[Isfendil]

Hasn't that already been achieved with Christia-[STONED ALONG WITH ST. STEPHEN]

Christianity is not Judaism. It may have been similar once but it certainly isn't now.

 

[mike of mass]

I think the point of departure is the Bar Kochva revolt. Let say the Jewish population of empire is higher than the 10% I've heard it estimated at, then there may be efforts to prevent the destruction of the temple and the renaming of the region. A population of 20% would allow for greater natural increase and prostelyzing among the African and northern European tribes.

 

[Isfendil]

I think the point of departure is the Bar Kochva revolt. Let say the Jewish population of empire is higher than the 10% I've heard it estimated at, then there may be efforts to prevent the destruction of the temple and the renaming of the region. A population of 20% would allow for greater natural increase and prostelyzing among the African and northern European tribes.

How do we feasibly maximize the population without generating world destroying butterflies?

 

[Pempelune]

How do we feasibly maximize the population without generating world destroying butterflies?

How do you possibly wank a major religion this early without generating world destroying butterflies?

 

[Isfendil]

How do you possibly wank a major religion this early without generating world destroying butterflies?

Butterflies that destroy the tl before it starts

 

[Pempelune]

Butterflies that destroy the tl before it starts

A doctrinal change that basically ask the Jews to 'multiply and spread' might do the trick.

 

[PaleoT]

Well the answer to me is simple: get rid of Jesus or atleast make him less of an importance. Without Jesus creating Christianity, Islam would not come into being either and thus Judaism would have much less competition in the region without Islam and Christianity. As such it is completely possible for Himyarite Kingdom to dominate Arabia(It would still exist as there would be no Christian Askum to interfere with it: speaking of which Askum would likely be Jewish or have a high Jewish Population themselves). I think that Judaism could become the dominant religion in the Levant, the Arabian Penninsula and East Africa. Beyond that? Problem is, you have much stronger and more consolidated cultures such as the Romans/Byzantines(Whichever existed in this OTL, if either) and Persians or geographic barriers like the Caucases mountains to the North and the interior jungles, deserts and highlands of Africa. Your best bet for further expansion is that Judaism gets picked up by a Steppe Nomad group(Like the Khazars) and a Jewish diaspora gets spread throughout their lands; but its unlikely they would convert the regions they conquer in their entirety. In addition Judaism might be in a good condition to take Islam's place in Indian-Ocean trade, allowing Judaism to spread gradually along with its merchants although the Jewish faith has a less of a tendancy to proselytize than that of Islam.

Your best potential nations for a Jewish Wank are very likely a Himyarite State, a Judaic Askum, a Roman successor state in the Levant(If one comes into existence) or if a steppe nomad group adopts Judaism.

Other less likely options? A Jewish Babylon/Assyria isn't impossible considering the Jewish influence there, although the region is under heavy Persian and zoroastrian influence. The Kieven Rus also considered Judaism historically. Then you have practically ASB topics such as a Jewish Byzantium, Egypt and or Persia. Judaism may also pick up more speed in Europe due to the lack of Christianity, so a Germanic Tribe adopting it isn't completely out of the cards.

 

[Minchandre]

It's worth noting that modern Judaism has strayed very, very far from it's origins. Though the core beliefs are arguably the same, most of the rest has changed. The loss of the temple prevents many mitzvahs from being performed, and in general the entire religion has changed, arguably including some of the core.

Judaism as practiced in Judea before the destruction of the Temple was a highly centralized religion that enforced a particular economy of small-scale agriculture through the allocation of lands to particular families (with lands returning once a generation during the Jubilee), and the entire population theoretically coming to Jerusalem every Passover. The priesthood enjoyed a very large amount of influence, even over secular politics. Contemporary Judaism outside of the Holy Land was quite different, a decentralized system with local religious leaders providing more influence and judgment, presiding over more diverse economic systems and with a subservient relationships to the local secular authorities; even in Rome and Alexandria, in constant communication with Jerusalem, doctrine and practices strayed quite far, and that was even more pronounced in more distant communities. After the destruction of the Temple, for a while there was a sort of "priesthood in exile" based in Alexandria, but things quickly became polynodal. And naturally, things evolved since then.

That said, there are a few things that have remained constant: kashrut, high holidays (Rosh haShanah, Yom Kippur, Sukkot, Passover, and Shvuot), and the Sabbath. Even those faced some evolution, though, in particular with Sabbath and kashrut. The latter began adopting less and less permissive interpretations of rules, imposing the prohibition on milk and meat in the general sense, and of course considering new foods (like turkeys, which are clearly kosher since they're birds, and not raptors). The former evolved too, with periodic adoption of more and less strict practices (e.g., permitting the keeping of lights already on, the eruv, but also there were periods when "travelling" meant as little as a few hundred yards). Some of the more esoteric and difficult mitzvot get sidelined.

The Holidays and the Sabbath provide no obvious obstacles, but kashrut...

But Islam shows you can do it partway, though kashrut is much stricter.

 

[GohanLSSJ2]

I wanna try a Jewish wank myself.

But my PoD is on the 1740's. Could a Jewish enlightenment (Hakshalah and then Yiddishism) followed by a Jewish equivalent of "The Great Awakening" cause an increase in the number of Jews? Maybe missionary activities on Central Asia?

 

[Isfendil]

I wanna try a Jewish wank myself.

But my PoD is on the 1740's. Could a Jewish enlightenment (Hakshalah and then Yiddishism) followed by a Jewish equivalent of "The Great Awakening" cause an increase in the number of Jews? Maybe missionary activities on Central Asia?

My personal vision kind of involves a world without Christianity or Islam ideally, but there are all sorts of opportunities for Jewish power to advance following the advent of those two religions.

 

[Minchandre]

I wanna try a Jewish wank myself.

But my PoD is on the 1740's. Could a Jewish enlightenment (Hakshalah and then Yiddishism) followed by a Jewish equivalent of "The Great Awakening" cause an increase in the number of Jews? Maybe missionary activities on Central Asia?

The Haskalah wasn't particularly universalist, though the synthesis with the Enlightenment made it much less insular, so I guess it's plausible. Yiddishism, though, is a fairly nationalistic movement, so it's hard to see it leading to an evangelizing faith.

 

[GohanLSSJ2]

My personal vision kind of involves a world without Christianity or Islam ideally, but there are all sorts of opportunities for Jewish power to advance following the advent of those two religions.

I mainly have a few ideas:

Yiddishism takes root strongly and early on Ashkenazi Jews. This causes an Alt-Jewish Nationalism in the Pale of Settlement with Yiddish as it's base language.

A Jewish missionary converts a few Turkic/Tartar/Mongol tribes and succeeds in getting holds over them, effectively turning them into a new Khazar Khanate

Judaism in China spreads, with a revival of the Kai-Feng Jews. Bonus points if they, the Hui Muslims and the Tai Ping Christians simultaneously become a pain in the ass for the Qing.