AHC: Spanish America colonized, settled and perhaps ultimately subdivided by all Habsburg realms?

[raharris1973]

I think the Castilians dominated and controlled ties with Spanish America even to the exclusion of Aragonese to a great extent, much less Austrians, Netherlanders, Milanese, Neapolitans, Sicilians, Franche Comte-ans, Hither Austrians, Bohemians and Hungarians.

Is there any plausible way for the American conquests to be made to some extent and then ruled as common property of the Habsburg menagerie, with Castille not being necessarily most dominant in all parts of it in the decades down the line?

 

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

I've often thought about the possibility that the Spanish set up minor princes and dukes as 'independent' rulers in the Americas. I wonder if any circumstances might align where this is a possibility.

 

[Timaeus]

Charles V and I should probably rule in such a manner that he can handle being Holy Roman Emperor and King of Spain all by himself, and still feel that his son can do the same. Also, a plague killing off Aragonese nobles allowing them free reign over the Spanish realms would help.

And minor Habsburg princes in the Americas could only happen if the Habsburgs remained as fertile in the 16th century as they were in the 13th, with fourth sons of fourth sons going conquistador.

 

[Shevek23]

I think the Castilians dominated and controlled ties with Spanish America even to the exclusion of Aragonese to a great extent, much less Austrians, Netherlanders, Milanese, Neapolitans, Sicilians, Franche Comte-ans, Hither Austrians, Bohemians and Hungarians.

Is there any plausible way for the American conquests to be made to some extent and then ruled as common property of the Habsburg menagerie, with Castille not being necessarily most dominant in all parts of it in the decades down the line?

This would be so cool!

I'd want to consult histories of both Spain and the Spanish Empire of the Indies most carefully first, but it is my guess that the reason the Spanish kings, even when they also wore the crown of the HRE, permitted only Castilians to settle in the New World was a matter of keeping tight control. Castilians, I'm guessing, had an identity tied up with the royal ability to dominate and thus define Spain, and therefore would not seek to break loose and claim their own little private Duchy or Palatinate or Grand County or Republic or what have you. Had the kings broadened it to Catalans, Aragonese, Leonese, etc that they might have done that, regarding the rule of the Spanish kings as alien and usurping their loyalties. The legacy of getting control of these other peoples of Spain, and of course the various non-Christian peoples first defeated, later expelled completely, form the basis of Castilian culture and identity. Therefore for them to just cut loose and declare themselves local rulers is less likely. Too much invested in their identity as Spaniards, specifically the hegemonic Castilians, to do that. If the lesser nationalities had been allowed to colonize on an equal basis they'd be more likely to secede. And so it would be far worse still with a polyglot grab bag of settlers from all over the shifting borders of the Hapsburg lands! The vast Empire would schism into a dozen local principalities.

 

[Tyler96]

Is there any possibility (however remote) that the Welser banking clan makes a success out of their concession in Venezuela (Klein-Venedig) and this opens up more opportunities for Germans in the Americas?

 

[raharris1973]

Is there any possibility (however remote) that the Welser banking clan makes a success out of their concession in Venezuela (Klein-Venedig) and this opens up more opportunities for Germans in the Americas?

Fairly random thought- I wonder if the Welsers could have done better if they started their effort in Peru, Chile or La Plata instead of Klein-Venedig.

Or, if not the Welsers, Swiss mercenaries seem like a great fit for the Andes.

 

[raharris1973]

This would be so cool!

snip

If the lesser nationalities had been allowed to colonize on an equal basis they'd be more likely to secede. And so it would be far worse still with a polyglot grab bag of settlers from all over the shifting borders of the Hapsburg lands! The vast Empire would schism into a dozen local principalities.

The potential coolness factor is indeed what inspired me to think of this scenario.

Finding a plausible PoD and tracing a plausible scenario to make it work seems like the harder part.

I wonder if we could find some way to slow down or limit Spanish [or even Iberian & European] voyages of discovery for a couple decades but contain the butterflies enough that a) Castille-Aragon still get into the vast Habsburg fold, which still assembles as marriages and inheritances work out the same way, and b) Habsburgia, probably with Spain in the lead, is still the first to get to the Caribbean, and thence Mesoamerica and Peru and so on. A) might alter internal power balance within the Habsburg ensemble enough that all parts get more of a share in deciding terms of intra-imperial cooperation without Castille having so much of an advantage. B) would ensure "Habsburgia" still gets to dominate the field.