AHC: Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Germany, and Italy have their own "Commonwealth"

What I mean as "Commonwealth" is an intergovernmental organization which can trace its origin from European colonial empires in 19th century, thus most (but not all) of its members are former colonies of the European nations, e.g. British Commonwealth and Francophonie...
Your challenge is to make present-day Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Germany, and Italy have their own Commonwealth organization...
(the PODs are up to you, but preferably no earlier than 1492...)
 
What I mean as "Commonwealth" is an intergovernmental organization which can trace its origin from European colonial empires in 19th century, thus most (but not all) of its members are former colonies of the European nations, e.g. British Commonwealth and Francophonie...
Your challenge is to make present-day Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Germany, and Italy have their own Commonwealth organization...
(the PODs are up to you, but preferably no earlier than 1492...)

Spain and Portugal to my knowledge do have organizations like this.
 
I always liked the idea of a successful 1st Spanish Republic attempting a Commonwealth to get rid of the Cuban problem and be all lovely and progressive though I imagine efforts to incorporate her more closely into the Republic much like France's various attempts would be tried.

Germany if it can avoid losing her colonies in a war probably has the best chance, a bunch of relatively poor colonies with little attachment to the metropole means an realm to dominate in a looser organisation - just look at France's former Saharan colonies - Paris still holds alot clout.

I can easily see Tanganika and Nambia as part of a German Commonwealth either as Dominions of the Crown or closely tied republics.

A more sensible Portugal could possibly do likewise.
 
I think that in the 19th cenury the Netherlands had too few colonies left to form a commonwealth. It would just be Indonesia and the Netherlands (ok and Surinam). So maybe if the Netherlands manages to keep the Cape colony, Ceylon and the Dutch goldcoast (which should be possible with a POD during the French revolution or even later) and with a balkanised Indonesia after independence (independent Maluku Islands, New Guinea, etc.), yu have enough ex-colonies to form a Dutch Commonwealth.
 
I think that in the 19th cenury the Netherlands had too few colonies left to form a commonwealth. It would just be Indonesia and the Netherlands (ok and Surinam). So maybe if the Netherlands manages to keep the Cape colony, Ceylon and the Dutch goldcoast (which should be possible with a POD during the French revolution or even later) and with a balkanised Indonesia after independence (independent Maluku Islands, New Guinea, etc.), yu have enough ex-colonies to form a Dutch Commonwealth.
Not to mention a better process of Decolonization in the case of Indonesia, former Dutch East Indies. (But that sould be in the after 1900 forum)..
 
Spain and Portugal to my knowledge do have organizations like this.

Correct. The Lusophony even has its own Commonwealth Games-like athletics event, though it's attended by all of 12 competitors, one of which is Macau and two of which are tiny island nations. Also India and Sri Lanka are part of the 12 as associate members.
 
You would have to prevent the first world war. If it happens Germany will inevitably lose her colonies. So lets assume that from 1914 to 1920 there are no good reasons for starting a war. After this time the Russians have completed their railway system and the Germans thought they could no longer win a confrontation with Russia. With no world wars to weaken the European colonial powers, the independence movements are unlikely to succed, and a commonwealth sturcture for the colonies are very likely.
 
have a neutral itay in WW2 and lybia, somalia, eritrea, ethiopia and albania would pretty certainly belong to the the italian commonwealth
 
have a neutral itay in WW2 and lybia, somalia, eritrea, ethiopia and albania would pretty certainly belong to the the italian commonwealth

I agree with this.

I think a less violent decolonization process for the Spanish colonies could lead to a "Commonwealth". Maybe the Spanish colonies could be spun off as new kingdoms under side branches of the Spanish royal family? The same could probably happen for the Portuguese colonies as well. I don't think this solution would work for other countries, since they will be getting colonies too late.
 
Actually, the proyects of division of Spanish Empire into three or four kingdoms with spanish princes in the late eighteenth and early nineteenth were a Commonwealth proyects in themselves
 
Actually, the proyects of division of Spanish Empire into three or four kingdoms with spanish princes in the late eighteenth and early nineteenth were a Commonwealth proyects in themselves

I've always been skeptical of this idea. To my mind, just because the Portuguese pulled off the idea of royalty in America, a lot of posters here thus seem to think that anyone could pull it off. I think instead that one of two things would happen if the Spanish tried to pull off splitting up their inheritance into four. Either the princes who were to become Kings would refuse to travel to their new kingdoms or if forced they would become disgruntled and would abdicate/encourage revolution by their apathy. To put it simply, up until after the age of Empire had passed anyway, simply put the Americas (outside of the USA if you are so inclined to argue) were not a prestigious place to live - whether they were actually a nice place to live or not, they had the reputation for being cheap, disease-ridden, low-class backwaters, and undeniably they had no sense of upper class high society that Europe enjoyed. Take for example when the Mexicans shortly after their revolution attempted to find an Austrian to become Emperor of Mexico. Everyone refused. They had no interest in moving to America - a huge country and a throne to themselves just didn't compare to fashion, balls, wealth, and comfort. And no, they couldn't implant high society - any nobles they attempted to bring with them would refuse to travel too. The reason it worked for the Portuguese is the sole reason that, with Napoleon on the march, the Portuguese royalty faced being taken into French custody and stripped permanently of their land and privilege.

Not to mention...why would the Spanish split up the Empire into four? If they tried doing it when discontent was rising and revolution was seeming certain, they would just be sending the princes to a lynch mobbing which would probably encourage revolution across the Empire even more - not to mention it would be a tacit admission that they didn't believe that they could win against a revolution - they might have been correct, but that's an admission you can't afford to make. It would be a bit like the UK in 1776 saying "OK, we put our hands up. We made a mistake and we can't win. We're going to pull out of North America without even trying now, and if anyone attempts to threaten us in our moment of weakness then so help us God we will do our best to capitulate humiliatingly against you too." It just wouldn't happen. Avoiding a fight is something that you are praised for on the school playground. It is an unacceptable loss of prestige if you are a world-spanning Empire, no matter how bad the fall will be when you lose.

On the other hand, if they tried sending princes to become Kings when there were barely any murmurs of discontent in the colonies...well why on earth should they? It may be a disastrously poor way to conduct internal policy to concede defeat to internal rebels without a fight, but far far far worse is to concede defeat to the possibility that there might be rebels. Simply put, it was the sole reason for existence for every Empire (on the macro-politics level) to remain whole and become as powerful as they could be. Dividing your Empire up is something that you only do if you are losing a talented ruler (i.e. Alexander the Great) and you know the Empire can't hold together. The Spanish Empire had held together for 300 years of dross Kings. There was no logical reason it should commit seppuku for the sake of making life a bit easier for local government. It's just a nonsense move.

Not intending to criticise your opinions, of course. I just want to set the record straight as to how and why decisions like these are/were made. You can't judge ancient Empires by modern-day standards of decision making and values. You just can't.
 
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