AHC: Spain as Second Rome

[Jurgen Wullenwever]

Then the premise doesn't match the OP that explicitly states "With any POD following the collapse of the Western Roman Empire".

What year does this mean, then, in any well-informed person's opinion?

 

[LSCatilina]

Less a year than a process. People didn't awakened one day and saying themselves "Well, today the Roman Empire is no more".

If collapse is the failure of roman state to control the territories that composed the empire and/or the migrating peoples in the Romania; where the survival of WRE becomes unavoidable I would say the collapse of Roman Africa.

The collapse of Rhine border, which migrating peoples can cross without being blocked by Romans and settle on their own territories that they rule directly.
But while fiscal ressources are weakened and whole regions escape imperial authority, the situation isn't totally catastrophic, with Flavius controlling the situation whom issues stand periphericals.

The fall of Roman Africa, definitely prevent WRE to survive on its own, as it loose mediterranean domination, fiscality of a preserved region and ravitail or help outside ERE that prooved much interested to meddle as possible in Italy, worsening a situation already unstable, due to higher pressure on Italians.

So, more or less : 429 as the beggining of collapse of the empire in West that would end (symbolically) in 476.

 

[Russian]

With any POD following the collapse of the Western Roman Empire, make a Christian Spain the claimant to the title of Rome, and have it own the territories of Sicily, Carthage, Morocco (Mauritania), Sardinia and Corsica and Tripoli in Libya.

Bonus points if Spain also obtains Jerusalem, Rome, Egypt and the Peloponnese.

Extra bonus points if Islam still exists.

As someone in this thread said the only state which qualifies is that of Theoderic the Great.
So the needed POD is that Theoderic has an able heir who makes Spain his residence for whatever reason.
And yes, that would be nice if this heir of his took a title of emperor, Roman emperor or Caesar or August or something like that.
As a matter of fact Theoderic was an emperor but in name only. He closely imitated the actions of the Roman emperors when dealing with his Roman subjects - his appearances before Roman public were deliberately imperial, he gave Public Games, built public buildings and did all other things which the Roman emperors did or were expected to do. His depictions for public use were obviously depictions of the Roman Emperor. Actually he was the first Barbarian Roman Emperor after the fall of the "official Roman" Roman Empire in the West; the second Barbarian Roman Emperor in the west was Charlemagne.
So the Roman imperial tradition in the West was de facto preserved by him. Just make it stick for some time and claim a de jure title of Emperor.

 

[Wendell]

As someone in this thread said the only state which qualifies is that of Theoderic the Great.
So the needed POD is that Theoderic has an able heir who makes Spain his residence for whatever reason.
And yes, that would be nice if this heir of his took a title of emperor, Roman emperor or Caesar or August or something like that.
As a matter of fact Theoderic was an emperor but in name only. He closely imitated the actions of the Roman emperors when dealing with his Roman subjects - his appearances before Roman public were deliberately imperial, he gave Public Games, built public buildings and did all other things which the Roman emperors did or were expected to do. His depictions for public use were obviously depictions of the Roman Emperor. Actually he was the first Barbarian Roman Emperor after the fall of the "official Roman" Roman Empire in the West; the second Barbarian Roman Emperor in the west was Charlemagne.
So the Roman imperial tradition in the West was de facto preserved by him. Just make it stick for some time and claim a de jure title of Emperor.

Even this won't work as Theodoric was never crowned emperor. One does one though what might have happened had he been.