AHC: South wins the Civil War, and Germany wins both World Wars

The most common alternate histories involve the south winning the US Civil War, Germany winning World War I, and Germany winning World War II. I would like you to try to come up with a scenario where all three of those happen.
 
The most common alternate histories involve the south winning the US Civil War, Germany winning World War I, and Germany winning World War II. I would like you to try to come up with a scenario where all three of those happen.

TL-191 aside, I can imagine that this might involve the South teaming up with Germany in both World Wars(hey, why not?), though it might or might not require Britain to be involved on their side as well. Also, the likelihood of the Nazis existing is relatively low, I would suspect, especially if the Russian Empire manages to survive(would likely have to require butterflying both Alexander III's and Nicholas II's administrations as they were IOTL).
 

jahenders

Banned
Kind of hard to imagine.

However, if the South did somehow get the North to give up and won, and then kept, its independence, that would have an impact on the world wars.

USA would definitely be somewhat weaker as WWI neared and might be less inclined to get involved, even to the point of supplying England.

CSA would be quite weak compared to USA and wouldn't want to take an opposing side or that'd invite US attack. CSA would probably stay out to.

However, USA not supporting England and not getting involved, coupled with a little different luck, might allow the Germans to hang on to at least achieve a good peace settlement.

Assuming WWI ends in a German win or an amicable settlement, WWII might not happen or might look very little like it did, being instead a WWI-revisited or even a 2nd Franco-German war.
 
Is there a reason why people on Alternate History like entertaining TLs where black people and Jews are screwed over even more than in OTL?
 
Is there a reason why people on Alternate History like entertaining TLs where black people and Jews are screwed over even more than in OTL?

The Jews wouldn't necessarily be screwed over more ITTL (assuming there aren't Nazis, because how the hell would you get Nazis with Germany winning the first war). As for blacks, they're just collateral damage since people really want to screw over the USA in relation to Europe. African-Americans are no more a consideration in these sorts of speculations then black Africans are.
 
Wasn't German defeat in the WW1 a prerequisite for the rise of Hitler and the Nazis? I'm not saying there wouldn't be a second major war in Europe a few years after the first- maybe a vengeful France or British Empire out for revenge pushing Germany into a round two but I agree with the others thoughts that such a war would look most different to OTL WW2.

Maybe Fullers idea of Armoured/mobile war are adopted by the British and it is they who throw thenselves against concreted Imperial or German republic fortifications along the West Wall.
 
Is there a reason why people on Alternate History like entertaining TLs where black people and Jews are screwed over even more than in OTL?

Grimdark can be fun. Also in a fictional sense, often the "bad guys" (used in the general sense before you think I'm saying the Nazis were not Evil) winning can be the more interesting scenario.
 
Grimdark can be fun. Also in a fictional sense, often the "bad guys" (used in the general sense before you think I'm saying the Nazis were not Evil) winning can be the more interesting scenario.

Fun if you're not part of the group at risk of being enslaved/oppressed/wiped out.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
If Germany wins the First World War, then there wouldn't be anything like the Second World War as it took place IOTL. For that matter, if the South won the Civil War, then there wouldn't be anything like the First World War as it took place IOTL.
 
If Germany wins the First World War, then there wouldn't be anything like the Second World War as it took place IOTL. For that matter, if the South won the Civil War, then there wouldn't be anything like the First World War as it took place IOTL.

Well, I dunno. You might indeed, without any doubt, be rather correct about OTL's WWII: the Nazis rising up probably would be quite unlikely, even with if a Soviet Union forms at some point.....but, OTOH, I can also point out that there's nothing that says that something similar to our world's WWI, at least, could not end up occurring at some point, over something(maybe it starts over Poland instead of Serbia, for example.....)
 
Well, I dunno. You might indeed, without any doubt, be rather correct about OTL's WWII: the Nazis rising up probably would be quite unlikely, even with if a Soviet Union forms at some point.....but, OTOH, I can also point out that there's nothing that says that something similar to our world's WWI, at least, could not end up occurring at some point, over something(maybe it starts over Poland instead of Serbia, for example.....)

If Germany won WWI, the chance of the Nazi's coming to power in Germany is so minuscule, one can only call ASB. France (and perhaps Britain?) being taken over by fascists and the German's appearing as one of the "good guys" for once is much more likely.
 
The most common alternate histories involve the south winning the US Civil War, Germany winning World War I, and Germany winning World War II. I would like you to try to come up with a scenario where all three of those happen.

Why not add Russia winning the Cold War?:p
 
If Germany won WWI, the chance of the Nazi's coming to power in Germany is so minuscule, one can only call ASB.

Maybe so.

France (and perhaps Britain?) being taken over by fascists and the German's appearing as one of the "good guys" for once is much more likely.
Maybe *somewhat* more likely, but probably not by much. In fact, depending on the circumstances, at least, perhaps if enough things go wrong for Germany after an alternate *WWI(which isn't impossible), it may be actually more likely they could be the ones to go *fascist(even if said *fascists aren't quite the Nazis), than Britain and France doing so even after a loss, without some rather more extraordinary circumstances on *their* end.

Why not add Russia winning the Cold War?:p

It could happen, but would be rather hard to pull with OTL's Russia. It might even require butterflying Stalin's ascension and replacing him with Trotsky.....which might require butterflies of its own.
 
Maybe *somewhat* more likely, but probably not by much. In fact, depending on the circumstances, at least, perhaps if enough things go wrong for Germany after an alternate *WWI(which isn't impossible), it may be actually more likely they could be the ones to go *fascist(even if said *fascists aren't quite the Nazis), than Britain and France doing so even after a loss, without some rather more extraordinary circumstances on *their* end.

A defeat of France would have been devastating to the French. Combine the destruction of their opportunity of Revanche, and the immense war reparations and the demilitarization of the Seine and German occupation of a significant portion of the country would be more than enough for a fascist takeover of France. A victorious monarchy in Germany would with their now insane amount of popular support easily crush any fascist and communist opposition.
 
A defeat of France would have been devastating to the French. Combine the destruction of their opportunity of Revanche, and the immense war reparations and the demilitarization of the Seine and German occupation of a significant portion of the country would be more than enough for a fascist takeover of France. A victorious monarchy in Germany would with their now insane amount of popular support easily crush any fascist and communist opposition.

You do have a valid point in regards to France, but even with a situation virtual to, say, TL-191, the German monarchy is by no means invincible; if enough things go wrong for Germany, and they certainly could, there *will* be problems. I lean more in the direction of a *fascist, or at least quasi-fascist regime, because that wouldn't at all require dumping the Kaiser; hell, perhaps he'd go along willingly, circumstances permitting!

But again, I'm not convinced that Germany will necessarily have everything going right for it after it wins a war; contrary to Harry Turtledove(hey, I respect the guy quite a bit, but that doesn't mean I can't strongly disagree with him.), I accept the possibility that plenty of things could go quite wrong after a German victory. That doesn't mean that they will; perhaps the Germans play the right cards after all, and manage to choose wisely. But the opposite possibilities can't be ignored, either.
 
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