AHC: Smallest Possible United States

As a flip of this thread, how small could the US have been (barring stuff like breaking up the Thirteen Colonies up at the get go)? What would have filled in North America in lieu of a US that stretches across the continent?

My guess is that it's going to be basically impossible for the US not to try and have its western border be the Mississippi, and even then it's going to be damn hard for them not to try and nab chunks of the Louisiana Territory.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Strategic vacumns tend to be ...

As a flip of this thread, how small could the US have been (barring stuff like breaking up the Thirteen Colonies up at the get go)? What would have filled in North America in lieu of a US that stretches across the continent?

My guess is that it's going to be basically impossible for the US not to try and have its western border be the Mississippi, and even then it's going to be damn hard for them not to try and nab chunks of the Louisiana Territory.

Strategic vacumns tend to be ... filled.

Best,
 
Unless something goes disastrously wrong during the revolution and the United States is shattered right out of the gate I strongly suspect that the Louisiana Purchase is almost a foregone conclusion. Having said that, it doesn't take too much effort to have Britain be in the pre-eminent position in the Northwest.

If Britain manages to grab the Northwest in the War of 1812, America probably doubles down on filibustering in Texas and you wind up with some sort of West Florida analogue. An America shorn of much of the North with a much expanded South might have a lot of internal problems for many years and might inhibit further expansionism.
 
If we aren't breaking up the 13 colonies then the US's western border is at least going to be the Mississippi, since that was what they had in 1789 (the only other people in that area were the Native Americans, and they really don't have a chance at withstanding the Americans long term). Furthermore unless a power like the British takes the Louisiana Territory and is willing to hold it the Louisiana Territory probably becomes American (France and Spain don't have the power or the interest to hold it long term). Florida and the Southwest have similar issues to Louisiana, since Spain was in decline and Mexico wouldn't be powerful enough to hold them. The territories that most easily could remain outside of the US are the Pacific Northwest (if the British decide they want it), Alaska (which could be held by the Russians or sold to the British), and Hawaii (although like the other areas if America doesn't take it Britain probably will).
 
I like the initial revolution is butterflied and later the Southern colonies revolt over slavery and making a United States confined to the South
 
Here´s a list:
-No Gadsen Purchase
-The territorial dispute over Maine and Minnesota ends with the UK winning
-Alaska is taken/sold by/to the UK
-The Hawaii are not taken by the US
-Puerto Rico is either independent or part of some other country

This is not the worst case scenario for the US though.
 
Is it at all plausible for the Jeffersonians to decide to side with France in the Napoleonic Wars, rather than staying neutral as in OTL? Maybe the consulate lasts a few more years, so the Jefferson administration commits to a still-republican France at first. Under this scenario, the UK presumably smacks the US down and forces unfavorable border changes in 1815.
 
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