AHC: Smaller Brazil

Originally, Portugal wasn't supposed to go so far west, per their agreement with Spain. Westward exploration kept creeping Brazil westward til Spain and Portugal came to an agreement, with exchanges of territory. If Spain doesn't go into a death spiral, Spain might be more enthusiastic about kicking the Portuguese out.

Have the Dutch hold on to New Holland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Brazil They'll probably expand, perhaps taking all of the Amazon.

Have the French Antarctique colony survive and expand.

Perhaps Lopez is a better general and succeeds in the Paraguayan War, or gets the Argentines to join him. He would likely take a lot of territory

Perhaps Argentina is more successful in the Cisplatine War and takes a lot of the Rio Grande do Sul area.

Brazil managed to wrangle the Acre state away from (drawing a blank) former Spanish colony. Or they aren't so successful in expanding the northern borders at the expense of Venezuela and the guianas. Or French Guiana manages to expand like they attempted.

Brazil did rather well for itself, considering how many opportunities it had to fail.
True, there are many PODs for that!
 
Because he’s probably just interested in the scenario? I’m American and I still enjoy reading about US screws
I like to read different scenarios, I don't hate my country, I simply like to read what could've screwed or wanked it
This
I mean I figured this would be easy to tell, I'm the most obnoxious Br on the forum when it comes to asking about the place of my country on TLs and I just made the biggest brazilian screw here :p
 
IOTL, for part of the 18th century it was run as two separate colonies, one in the north (Maranhao, Para, Amaonas, & maybe a little bit more) and one to the south of this (all the rest), with only the latter named 'Brazil'. Introduce this split earlier, so that the two have time to develop separate identities and eventually become independent separately from each other.
 
IOTL, for part of the 18th century it was run as two separate colonies, one in the north (Maranhao, Para, Amaonas, & maybe a little bit more) and one to the south of this (all the rest), with only the latter named 'Brazil'. Introduce this split earlier, so that the two have time to develop separate identities and eventually become independent separately from each other.
I liked that
 
I like to read different scenarios, I don't hate my country, I simply like to read what could've screwed or wanked it
I am similar, except I'm USAmerican. USA is already one big, scarcely believable, wank. A lot of folks like to wank it on top of that. It's nice (and rare) to see stories where USA fares a little worse, other than the 'South manages to secede' scenario.

Me? I love a good 'Mexico catches a break' story. Imagine if they'd had half the 'luck' USA did. Some of USA was luck, a lot was a good socio-economic situation.

I used to try giving Brazil a happy story line. The socio-economic people situation made it hard. So, I moved on to Mexico, which is even more socio-whacked. But Mexico has the geographic ability to block USA growth.

Brazil could have done better in development/industrializing, but it's about maxed out territorially in South America (keeping Angola or Mozambique is a possibility). Your challenge isn't all that hard, as Brazil had its own set of good fortune moments, which could realistically be reversed.
 
I am similar, except I'm USAmerican. USA is already one big, scarcely believable, wank. A lot of folks like to wank it on top of that. It's nice (and rare) to see stories where USA fares a little worse, other than the 'South manages to secede' scenario.
Agreed, OTL is a US wank (But I admit that I do wonder how it would be if the US managed to annex even more land)
Brazil could have done better in development/industrializing, but it's about maxed out territorially in South America (keeping Angola or Mozambique is a possibility). Your challenge isn't all that hard, as Brazil had its own set of good fortune moments, which could realistically be reversed.
Thanks
 
OTL is a US/British wank. I live in the States, and I like a good "What if Canada won the war of 1812?" but the south winning the civil war is just so boring now. Like could they do something besides just being by Britain and France's side? Go to Germany's side maybe? Maybe join the North in a Federation or something? Exploiting Liberia? Just do something different goddamnit
 
Easiest way to have a smaller Brazil is by killing the 1750 Treaty of Madrid before it gets signed - maybe D.João V dies one or two years earlier, or something else that scuttles the negotiations. Either way, you will have a Brazil that goes beyond Tordesilhas - but it won't be as big as OTL Brazil.
 
Easiest way to have a smaller Brazil is by killing the 1750 Treaty of Madrid before it gets signed - maybe D.João V dies one or two years earlier, or something else that scuttles the negotiations. Either way, you will have a Brazil that goes beyond Tordesilhas - but it won't be as big as OTL Brazil.
Interesting, I always thought that this Treaty actually hurt Brazilian expansion, because it defined the borders, stopping Brazil from claiming more lands
 
I've read that it was actually ineffective, due to local resistance in some areas that would have changed hands (including a large-scale armed uprising by Guarani people around some Jesuit missions), and consequently was cancelled only a year or three later, so that it was actually not until he first Treaty of San Ildefonso in 1777 that those boundaries became established.
 
I've read that it was actually ineffective, due to local resistance in some areas that would have changed hands (including a large-scale armed uprising by Guarani people around some Jesuit missions), and consequently was cancelled only a year or three later, so that it was actually not until he first Treaty of San Ildefonso in 1777 that those boundaries became established.
Yeah, that too
 
I've read that it was actually ineffective, due to local resistance in some areas that would have changed hands (including a large-scale armed uprising by Guarani people around some Jesuit missions), and consequently was cancelled only a year or three later, so that it was actually not until he first Treaty of San Ildefonso in 1777 that those boundaries became established.
Thing is, all the disputes were down south - the Amazon Basin and Mato Grosso were never disputed by the Spanish again. Also, while the Treaty itself was short-lived, things always returned to it.

Regarding the stopping of Brazilian expansion, it was getting close to its end anyway - the Portuguese wouldn't ever be able to establish themselves in the Altiplano, the eastern Andes, or the grasslands of Colombia and Venezuela beyond the Amazon Forest; they were too far from the main Portuguese domains and too close to the main Spanish ones.
 
Brazil managed to wrangle the Acre state away from (drawing a blank) former Spanish colony.
Bolivia.

On its own, Bolivia doesn't have a great track record of keeping territory not part of the Central Andes Plateau.

However, a closer alliance or Union with Peru with roots from the independence struggle could provide more military weight, better connection to Acre directly east from the Peruvian Andes and more ports to ship extracted rubber to industrialized countries in the late 19th/early 20th century.

Of course, all this is unnecessary if some Dutch Brazil successor state holds the Amazon.
 
The Dutch keep control of the Northeast and eventually expand into the Amazon, while the rest remains under the Portuguese? You can also have the border disputes in the south be resolved in the Spaniards' favor - they had Jesuit reductions as far as Paraná.
 
Carthriginians under a competent ruthless General flee across to Atlantic Morocco following last Punic War. Somehow a ragtag fleet ( sorry Adama ) ends up in present day Uruguay, starts anew. After couple decades a small fleet of young warriors go a-Viking for glory, women, loot on coasts of Spain, Gaul and they return home. Becomes some kind of ritual every generation or so until a couple fleets are wiped by the intended victims, so the carthriginians concentrate on South America. By time Europeans enter the hemisphere the car thriving and are established but are outgunned and they lose territory but present day they still have what constitutes Uruguay,Parana,Santa Catarina,Rio Grande do Sul. Probably entire regions history is different, maybe to counter Spain they form an alliance with British?
 
The Dutch keep control of the Northeast and eventually expand into the Amazon, while the rest remains under the Portuguese? You can also have the border disputes in the south be resolved in the Spaniards' favor - they had Jesuit reductions as far as Paraná.
Good one, the Dutch keeping the Brazilian Northeast would by itself already fulfill this challenge
 
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