AHC: Smaller Brazil

Brazil is a very big country, its landmass is almost half of South America, and its area is larger than the contiguous United States. However, with a POD starting in 1550, your objective is to have a Brazil that's much smaller. You can balkanize Brazil into 2 countries, but that's the limit.
 
Without the Iberian union, the portuguese probably won't feel free to just move about into the continent with disregard to tordesillas so...
 
Without the Iberian union, the portuguese probably won't feel free to just move about into the continent with disregard to tordesillas so...
Agreed, although I've seen some people argue that without the Iberian Union, Brazil would expand even further. I don't remember the argument they made, but it had to do with how Brazil's population was growing faster. But I personally think that no Iberian Union would indeed result in a smaller Brazil.
 
Treaty of tordeillas iirc or what treaty just said that Portugal can only own like a smol part of brazil if that is not edited iirc it might be pplaysible
 
I think the best way to screw Brazil is to mess with the guy who "discovered" it

"His fleet of 13 ships sailed far into the western Atlantic Ocean, perhaps intentionally, and made landfall (April 1500) on what he initially assumed to be a large island. As the new land was within the Portuguese sphere according to the 1494 Treaty of Tordesillas, Cabral claimed it for the Portuguese Crown. He explored the coast, realizing that the large land mass was probably a continent, and dispatched a ship to notify King Manuel I of the new territory. The continent was South America, and the land he had claimed for Portugal later came to be known as Brazil. The fleet reprovisioned and then turned eastward to resume the journey to India.

A storm in the southern Atlantic caused the loss of several ships, and the six remaining ships eventually rendezvoused in the Mozambique Channel before proceeding to Calicut in India. Cabral was originally successful in negotiating trading rights, but Arab merchants saw Portugal's venture as a threat to their monopoly and stirred up an attack by both Muslims and Hindus on the Portuguese entrepôt. The Portuguese sustained many casualties and their facilities were destroyed. Cabral took vengeance by looting and burning the Arab fleet and then bombarded the city in retaliation for its ruler having failed to explain the unexpected attack. From Calicut the expedition sailed to the Kingdom of Cochin, another Indian city-state, where Cabral befriended its ruler and loaded his ships with coveted spices before returning to Europe. Despite the loss of human lives and ships, Cabral's voyage was deemed a success upon his return to Portugal. The extraordinary profits resulting from the sale of the spices bolstered the Portuguese Crown's finances and helped lay the foundation of a Portuguese Empire that would stretch from the Americas to the Far East"

It wouldnt prevent the portuguese from coming and estabilishing small settlements, but there wouldnt be that initial "spark" and without his voyages successes filling the Crown's treasury and laying foundation to the Portuguese Empire in the East you wouldnt have the political-economical infraestructure that led to the portuguese colonization of Brazil
Continental Brazil itself in such a scenario would be seized by the spanish and french, perhaps maybe the dutch as well if they got lucky
However Portugal might still kept one or a few islands on the brazilian coast, serving as a port for them to trade with the other european powers who run the place, perhaps one of them might even be called "Island of Vera Cruz" and be known in mainland for the brazilwood they buy there
Thus in this world OTL Cabral would be right, due to his counterpart likely dying much sooner than in our own this Brazil would be indeed just a small island, forever under the Portugal's thumb
 
I think the best way to screw Brazil is to mess with the guy who "discovered" it

"His fleet of 13 ships sailed far into the western Atlantic Ocean, perhaps intentionally, and made landfall (April 1500) on what he initially assumed to be a large island. As the new land was within the Portuguese sphere according to the 1494 Treaty of Tordesillas, Cabral claimed it for the Portuguese Crown. He explored the coast, realizing that the large land mass was probably a continent, and dispatched a ship to notify King Manuel I of the new territory. The continent was South America, and the land he had claimed for Portugal later came to be known as Brazil. The fleet reprovisioned and then turned eastward to resume the journey to India.

A storm in the southern Atlantic caused the loss of several ships, and the six remaining ships eventually rendezvoused in the Mozambique Channel before proceeding to Calicut in India. Cabral was originally successful in negotiating trading rights, but Arab merchants saw Portugal's venture as a threat to their monopoly and stirred up an attack by both Muslims and Hindus on the Portuguese entrepôt. The Portuguese sustained many casualties and their facilities were destroyed. Cabral took vengeance by looting and burning the Arab fleet and then bombarded the city in retaliation for its ruler having failed to explain the unexpected attack. From Calicut the expedition sailed to the Kingdom of Cochin, another Indian city-state, where Cabral befriended its ruler and loaded his ships with coveted spices before returning to Europe. Despite the loss of human lives and ships, Cabral's voyage was deemed a success upon his return to Portugal. The extraordinary profits resulting from the sale of the spices bolstered the Portuguese Crown's finances and helped lay the foundation of a Portuguese Empire that would stretch from the Americas to the Far East"

It wouldnt prevent the portuguese from coming and estabilishing small settlements, but there wouldnt be that initial "spark" and without his voyages successes filling the Crown's treasury and laying foundation to the Portuguese Empire in the East you wouldnt have the political-economical infraestructure that led to the portuguese colonization of Brazil
Continental Brazil itself in such a scenario would be seized by the spanish and french, perhaps maybe the dutch as well if they got lucky
However Portugal might still kept one or a few islands on the brazilian coast, serving as a port for them to trade with the other european powers who run the place, perhaps one of them might even be called "Island of Vera Cruz" and be known in mainland for the brazilwood they buy there
Thus in this world OTL Cabral would be right, due to his counterpart likely dying much sooner than in our own this Brazil would be indeed just a small island, forever under the Portugal's thumb
Wow, that's a massive screw, I didn't know that Cabral was that essential to the existence of Brazil.
Thanks!
 
Wow, that's a massive screw, I didn't know that Cabral was that essential to the existence of Brazil.
Thanks!
You're welcome!
I got surprised myself
I only searched him to see if some other explorer could have got here first and found that out
But ya, Brazil turned into a lil' baby >.>
 
We could just have the loyalists in the north become a Portuguese protectorate when Brazil declares independence. Let's have the Portuguese actually learn from their mistakes and develop a good army, able to withstand the Brazilian one. To hit it in there that they really LEARN, let's have Brazil take Angola and the Portuguese are forced to develop a pink map-like method because that's learning. Ok we're just turning this into a Portugal wank so I'll end my ramblings here. Any questions feel free to ask
 
We could just have the loyalists in the north become a Portuguese protectorate when Brazil declares independence. Let's have the Portuguese actually learn from their mistakes and develop a good army, able to withstand the Brazilian one. To hit it in there that they really LEARN, let's have Brazil take Angola and the Portuguese are forced to develop a pink map-like method because that's learning. Ok we're just turning this into a Portugal wank so I'll end my ramblings here. Any questions feel free to ask
I don't mind a Portugal wank, because this one doesn't wank Brazil
 
Originally, Portugal wasn't supposed to go so far west, per their agreement with Spain. Westward exploration kept creeping Brazil westward til Spain and Portugal came to an agreement, with exchanges of territory. If Spain doesn't go into a death spiral, Spain might be more enthusiastic about kicking the Portuguese out.

Have the Dutch hold on to New Holland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Brazil They'll probably expand, perhaps taking all of the Amazon.

Have the French Antarctique colony survive and expand.

Perhaps Lopez is a better general and succeeds in the Paraguayan War, or gets the Argentines to join him. He would likely take a lot of territory

Perhaps Argentina is more successful in the Cisplatine War and takes a lot of the Rio Grande do Sul area.

Brazil managed to wrangle the Acre state away from (drawing a blank) former Spanish colony. Or they aren't so successful in expanding the northern borders at the expense of Venezuela and the guianas. Or French Guiana manages to expand like they attempted.

Brazil did rather well for itself, considering how many opportunities it had to fail.
 
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