AHC: Slavic Mesopotamia

How can it be, with a POD after 300 AD that the area comprising of roughly the southern half of OTL Iraq is culturally and linguistically Slavic to the present day?
 
First, the invasion of the Avars and the Bulgars or some other group, maybe not led by Slavs but with a major Slavic component should destroy the Byzantines. The invading force builds up an empire focused in Constantinople a la the Ottomans, and then begins a conquest of the Middle East. The new empire is remarkably successful, and reigns over Mesopotamia for centuries. When it falls, Slavic rulers continue ruling over the states of Mesopotamia, forcing their culture onto the inhabitants and eventually assimilating them. Perhaps the Slavic Empire falls from Europe's side, and as they are gradually forced out of Europe, they expend more and more effort and immigration to the Middle East, making in heavier Slavic.
 
How can it be, with a POD after 300 AD that the area comprising of roughly the southern half of OTL Iraq is culturally and linguistically Slavic to the present day?

This is actually easier with a later POD rather than an early one.

It's hard to see the Slavic migrations penetrating into the area. But once Islam was up and rolling there was a big role for Slavic slaves - which be seen in the two words having the same origin. IOTL Al Andalus and North Africa were big importers of pagan Slavs, who were typically Islamicized but otherwise kept their culture. Southern Iraq was also a big slave area, but here it was mostly Africans who were used as slave. They even had a moderately successful slave revolt in the 9th century. If you had Slavs used on the plantations rather than Africans, and a successful slave revolt, you would have a chance of an Islamic Slavic state in Southern Iraq. A slim chance, but it would exist.

Likely a better option, however, is merely for the Ottomans to at some point decide to have a population exchange between the Balkans and Mesopotamia. This could happen for a number of reasons. For example, there could be a localized plague in Iraq, which leads to a call to repopulate the region, and the Ottomans decide that resettling a number of troublesome Bulgarians to that area solves two problems at once. While specific circumstances would be needed, the plus of this type of scenario is you have centuries of time it's feasible, and it actually becomes more plausible the later in the Ottoman Empire's history you get.
 
I would point that Saqaliba, both in Al-Andalus or Islamic Middle East weren't exactly Slavs, but a mix of enslaved people of diverse origins : for ME ones, Caucasians peoples, actual Slavs, Northern Türks, Finns and Balts.

These groups acquired a common identify when they were enslaved and drived to ME, where they were eventually islamized and arabized. I don't think a Saqaliba state or group could really qualify as "Slav", no more than Black Americans could be considered Peul or Bambara.
 

Avskygod0

Banned
This would be INSANELY hard. They would have to either cross the Caucasus, or the Bosphorus or go through central Asia and cross the Iranian plateau. And all these places are extremely guarded by hostile peoples
 
It is actually VERY VERY possible. The Slavs were known as Saqaliba, after the fall of Caliphate of Córdoba and beginning of the taifa were Iberia was filled with mini-kingdoms they had one called Taifa of Dénia (which also controlled Balearic Islands) the first ruler was Mujahid al-Siqlabi, he is the founder a slave who escaped from Córdoba after the death of Caliph Muhammad II of Córdoba. He was a Muslim of course, he was an avid Quran and Arabic reader including Poetry. he wrote a book about Arabic prosody also known as science of poetry, he had excellent relationship with his Christian subjects, during his time his small kingdom built many ships and weaponry.
Let's look at the Middle East you have the Abbasid Caliphate. Let's break it down like Muslim Historians did
they had 4 eras
1-The Rise 750-847
2-The Turkish(soldiers/slaves) influence 847-1055
3-The Seljuq influence 1055-1258
4-Mameluks influence 1261-1517
In the era number 1 they were proper centralized Caliphate and 2 and 3 and 4 they acted like popes
During the era number 1 Caliph Al-Ma'mun(first one to use) and Al-Mu'tasim hired Turkish soldiers especially Caliph Al-Mu'tasim who introduced many of them (he had dark Blonde Beard) anyway, how about if the Caliph hires Slavs instead of Turks. He lost hope against Persians and Arabs and needs more trustworthy people. The Turk/Turkmen were from Transoxiana. A huge Slavic migration downward in the 9th century and making contact with the Caliphate could solidfy their hopes as de-facto rulers of the Caliphate,instead of Turks/Seljuq.
In Era number 2 there would be Slavic influence and the government is de-centralized Abbasid are Sunnis and Buyyids are shias they are controlling much of the Caliphate. Caliph Al-Qa'im (who was in the third era) asks for the Slavs for their help and who is there it is a the SLAVIC KNIGHT who goes to Baghdad and arrest Emir Abu Mansur Fulad Sutun of the Buyyids and their last major ruler. The SLAVIC KNIGHT marries the Caliph's daughter and given the title SULTAN and he is afterwards mentioned in every Friday prayer next to the Claiph's name which is a huge honour when millions of people call their God to help you around the Middle East. From there it is history Ottoman won't exist a Slavic one will exist.
 
1) No Islam
2) Sasanian Empire falls to Turkic invaders, Byzzies take the opportunity to invade Mesopotamia.
3) A Byzantine Emperor invites Christianized Slavic tribes to settle in the newly conquered region, establishing a march of sorts to guard against Turkic/Persian conquest attempts. (The medieval Serbian state of Raška was established in OTL under similar circumstances).
4) The Slavs persist in the area up to the present day.
 
what would be the language like?
a) south Slavic
b) east Slavic
c) something else?
have fun!

Probably classified as its own branch of Slavic, but bearing most of its similarities to South Slavic (in my scenario at least, as South Slavs would be the most likely source of Byzantine colonists). Expect a lot of influence from the surrounding languages (Persian, Turkic languages, Semitic languages), too...

Must... Resist... Urge... To conlang... :p
 
Probably classified as its own branch of Slavic, but bearing most of its similarities to South Slavic (in my scenario at least, as South Slavs would be the most likely source of Byzantine colonists). Expect a lot of influence from the surrounding languages (Persian, Turkic languages, Semitic languages), too...

Must... Resist... Urge... To conlang... :p
Do not resist.:p
 
Probably classified as its own branch of Slavic, but bearing most of its similarities to South Slavic (in my scenario at least, as South Slavs would be the most likely source of Byzantine colonists). Expect a lot of influence from the surrounding languages (Persian, Turkic languages, Semitic languages), too...

Must... Resist... Urge... To conlang... :p

Succumb to temptation.

It's the only way to rid yourself of guilt.
 
It is actually VERY VERY possible. The Slavs were known as Saqaliba
No, that's an overgeneralisation. Saqaliba could be European slaves (or from european servile origin) that because of the preponderance of Slaves were called such, while you find far more other origins.
Slavs (Wendes mostly), Balts, Germans, even Avars were driven trough Carolingia to Al-Andalus.

(I let aside the "black" Saqaliba. In the same manner "slave" went to meant a servile population in Europe, in Arabo-Islamic world saqaliba could design enslaved africans as well)

And it's only for origin : saqaliba population was eventually strongly arabized and islamized as Memeluks did.

I doubt that Saqaliba could fill what the OP asked for : I quote my earlier post on this.

I don't think a Saqaliba state or group could really qualify as "Slav", no more than Black Americans could be considered Peul or Bambara

he had excellent relationship with his Christian subjects, during his time his small kingdom built many ships and weaponry.
While the former part is true (even if stereotypical of taifas rulers description) we don't know many thing about his relations with Mozarabs or Neo-Mozarabs, probably being overshadowed by his relations with Christian outside the taifas that, exception made of good relations with Barcelona (probably in order to keep the north-eastern taifa busy elsewhere), were execrable, due to regulars raids on Italy.

I would want to point there that a Christian origin never prevented Saqaliba or Saqaliba-issued rulers to act differently from their Arab or Berber counterparts. More saqaliba taifas aren't going to be an huge difference itself.

In the era number 1 they were proper centralized Caliphate and 2 and 3 and 4 they acted like popes
I would agree with the later parts (it's more a like a mikado position rather than pope, but it's the general idea), but the early Abassid Caliphate can't be considered as centralized (neither can do any medieval state for that matter). On the other hand, it knew an important bureaucracy and army that most certainly provoked a need for slavery (servile clientele was considered as most trustworthy, as depending personally from their master).

how about if the Caliph hires Slavs instead of Turks.
Well, it's probable that Türks where included into the Saqaliba groups (again, if sudanese peoples were considered as such, I wonder which group could be barren from).

The main issue, that you underlined, is the lack of a Slavic migration downards to Middle-East.
You admittedly had slavic raids on Black Sea around the IX and X century that touched Anatolia and a possible alliance for Caucasian kingdoms struggling with Abassids, but I don't see why a migration should happen there : it's at the contrary a situation where slavic people stabilized into distinct communauties, for Rus' along the trade ways.

You would need to break them for having the possibility of a migration, but it would need a PoD in Byzantium and Late Umayyad/Early Abbassid caliphate that made them appearing in first place (and for breaking these roads, I do think it should be a negative PoD for these empires).

About the "slavic knight", while slavic rulership existed, it was more close of a chiefdom more or less used by rulers from other societies to impose themselves (Varangians in Russia, Bavarians in Carinthia, etc.). You would need a really important change in slavic society that seems contrary to being in migration to have clear identified rulers popping so suddenly (Turks having the OTL adventage to being more close to Arabo-Islamic world and slowly using its structure).
 
Do not resist.:p

Succumb to temptation.

It's the only way to rid yourself of guilt.

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