AHC: Sino-Roman War

With a PoD of no earlier than the year 100 A.D., make the Roman and Chineese Empires fight a war against eachother. The war must take place before the year 1,000 A.D., and there must be some actual combat between them, though the location and whether it is land or naval combat don't matter. The war must be driven by the Romans and Chineese (as in they cannot just be accessories in a war between other powers). The later the PoD the better.
 

Deleted member 67076

1)Have industrial revolution occur in both countries

2)Increase technology to allow for trains, frigates and gunpowder weaponry

3)Set off war due to interests in some other country

4)World War I
 
Have Rome conquer Persia. They will never be able to hold it for long. The empire soon breaks apart and a successor state who includes Syria, east Anatolia, Media and Mesopotamia forms.
The focus of this Roman(-Graeco-Persian) Empire soon turns away from the Med towards the weak states in Persia and re-united the land before some steppe people do.
Romano-Persia and China expand into central Asia and little border skirmishes occur ... (and 500 years later conquer the armies of Alexandros VI Augustos Chang'an OR the troops of Emperor Wu of Yan Seleucia-Cepsifon) :p
 
Well, you could have Alexander the Great live long enough to secure his hold over the Persian Empire, only to have his descendants loose the empire to the Romans, which give the Romans a jumping off point to India, and put them into direct contact with China, but I'm skeptical as to whether the Romans could hold together an empire stretching from Scotland the Himilayas, although Roman eagles in the shadow of Mount Everest strikes me as being pretty epic, but it its outside the parameters of the OP, anyway.
 
1)Have industrial revolution occur in both countries

2)Increase technology to allow for trains, frigates and gunpowder weaponry

3)Set off war due to interests in some other country

4)World War I

1)Late Greek Kingdoms did not suppress inventions.

2)New inventions eventually get to Rome, and more innovations kick-start the Industrial Revolution.

3)Through trade with the Seleucid Empire, Roman technology eventually reaches China.

4)Wait 200 Years. Within the 200 years, technology increases greatly to allow for airplanes, machine guns, chemical warfare, trains, and 20th-century-level medical knowledge.

5)Some border dispute or an invasion of a Roman colony by a Chinese colony starts World War 1. Persia and the numerous nomads and kingdoms join in, taking sides between the two empires.
 
What about a proxy war. A civil war in the Gupta (or one of the other Indian states) Empire with Rome backing one side and the Han the other. Or even such a war in Persia if the Chinese had more contact at the time.
 

katchen

Banned
Kujula Kadphises the first Kushan ruler, unifies the Yueh Chi triebes by 22 AD and instead of conquering Gandhara immediately, reconquers the Tarim Basin, the original home of the Yueh Chi and Tokharians from the Northern Hsiung-Hu and then defeats Wang Ming, the Hsin Dynasty Ruler who has led China into disaster. His well organized forces than defeat Liu Xiu, preventing the establishment of theLater Han Dynasty and giving the Kushans the opportunity to create the first foreign dynasty to rule over China.

The Kushans finish consolidating power over China by 50 AD and move to conquer Gandhara and then Arcsid Persia, which they complete by AD 60. This gives them a common frontier with Rome.
The Kushans utilize several major military innovations. One is the stirrup, which enables a mounted archer to fire arrows accurately from the saddle, even while riding away. The other, learned from the Chinese while conquering China, is the Chinese crossbow,which can penetrate the Roman scutum.

In AD 66, Judea revolts against Rome. The Kushans move in on Judea and offer it protection, which extends the Kushan Empire's borders all the way to the Mediteranean. Roman legions under Appolinaris from Egypt and Flavius Vespasian counterattack, but being infantry, are ill equiped to deal with an army that is mostly heavy catophracti. They are forced to retreat to Egypt where the Kushan Chinese commander decides not to follow for the time being at least due to the dificulty that he sees in controlling a territory with a population the size of Egypt with the force that he has, let alone transporting tax grain all the way to Chang'an, the new Kushan capital. A truce is arranged that still leaves Rome importing grain from Egypt while the Kushan Chinese begin to conquer and line up Scythian tribes north of the Jaxterxes (Syr Darya) River up to and later beyond the Volga for a final assault on the Hsiung Nu, the Kushan's most dangerous enemy. Further imperial conquest can wait until the remaining people of the Steppe are gathered together to deal with the Hsiung Nu.
 

scholar

Banned
With a PoD of no earlier than the year 100 A.D., make the Roman and Chineese Empires fight a war against eachother. The war must take place before the year 1,000 A.D., and there must be some actual combat between them, though the location and whether it is land or naval combat don't matter. The war must be driven by the Romans and Chineese (as in they cannot just be accessories in a war between other powers). The later the PoD the better.
Roman Merchant vessels attack Chinese merchant vessels in the Indian Ocean, sparking intermittent naval conflict between the two empire's extended and almost exclusively private enterprises. It ends when Rome's direct access to the Mediterranean is cut off.
 
1)Late Greek Kingdoms did not suppress inventions.

2)New inventions eventually get to Rome, and more innovations kick-start the Industrial Revolution.

3)Through trade with the Seleucid Empire, Roman technology eventually reaches China.

4)Wait 200 Years. Within the 200 years, technology increases greatly to allow for airplanes, machine guns, chemical warfare, trains, and 20th-century-level medical knowledge.

5)Some border dispute or an invasion of a Roman colony by a Chinese colony starts World War 1. Persia and the numerous nomads and kingdoms join in, taking sides between the two empires.

Could Twentieth Century technology really come about that early?
 
Tech to be, or not to be?

Could Twentieth Century technology really come about that early?

Umm... Maybe not.
It could have taken like 300-500 years from 200 A.D. to get an early industrial revolution started.
However, we were in the medieval age 500 years with technology roughly at the same level as the Romans a thousand years earlier. So basically we lost out on something close to a millennium of technological progress between say roughly 300 to 1300 A.D.
Most of the technological developments that define our modern lives have only taken place since the mid 19th century.
 

scholar

Banned
The Han and Tang Dynasties had proto-industrial make-ups before they collapsed violently reducing their populations to a third of what they were. If you want the post Apocalypse go no further than the fragmentary periods of China. The Song got close too, but that's outside the range. If you want to force industrialism upon a state, the Han Dynasty would give you the easiest chance for it and the greatest amount of time to allow them to be able to effectively reach Rome.
 
Roman Merchant vessels attack Chinese merchant vessels in the Indian Ocean, sparking intermittent naval conflict between the two empire's extended and almost exclusively private enterprises. It ends when Rome's direct access to the Mediterranean is cut off.

This seems the most likely to me. I just cannot think of any other way for any sort of Roman or Chinese military conflict to break out. They were just too separated for any sort of sustained contact to be maintained long enough for military squabbling to enter the realm of possibility.
 
Kujula Kadphises the first Kushan ruler, unifies the Yueh Chi triebes by 22 AD and instead of conquering Gandhara immediately, reconquers the Tarim Basin, the original home of the Yueh Chi and Tokharians from the Northern Hsiung-Hu and then defeats Wang Ming, the Hsin Dynasty Ruler who has led China into disaster. His well organized forces than defeat Liu Xiu, preventing the establishment of theLater Han Dynasty and giving the Kushans the opportunity to create the first foreign dynasty to rule over China.

The Kushans finish consolidating power over China by 50 AD and move to conquer Gandhara and then Arcsid Persia, which they complete by AD 60. This gives them a common frontier with Rome.
The Kushans utilize several major military innovations. One is the stirrup, which enables a mounted archer to fire arrows accurately from the saddle, even while riding away. The other, learned from the Chinese while conquering China, is the Chinese crossbow,which can penetrate the Roman scutum.

In AD 66, Judea revolts against Rome. The Kushans move in on Judea and offer it protection, which extends the Kushan Empire's borders all the way to the Mediteranean. Roman legions under Appolinaris from Egypt and Flavius Vespasian counterattack, but being infantry, are ill equiped to deal with an army that is mostly heavy catophracti. They are forced to retreat to Egypt where the Kushan Chinese commander decides not to follow for the time being at least due to the dificulty that he sees in controlling a territory with a population the size of Egypt with the force that he has, let alone transporting tax grain all the way to Chang'an, the new Kushan capital. A truce is arranged that still leaves Rome importing grain from Egypt while the Kushan Chinese begin to conquer and line up Scythian tribes north of the Jaxterxes (Syr Darya) River up to and later beyond the Volga for a final assault on the Hsiung Nu, the Kushan's most dangerous enemy. Further imperial conquest can wait until the remaining people of the Steppe are gathered together to deal with the Hsiung Nu.

I love this!

However, I'll point out pedantically that it doesn't fit the parameters of the AHC, as the POD occurs before 100 AD. That said, please do write a full timeline based on your outline above.
 
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Loving some of these responses. I admit I'm a bit surprised I've never seen a thread about this before, since Rome and China are pretty much the archetypes for Empire of Western Civilization and Empire of Eastern Civilization.

Industrial tech coming way earlier is unlikely, but in any event I doubt it would be necessairy for Rome and China to have a fight. In any event, it seems we have two basic scenarios.

1. Trade conflict leads to a naval altercation somewhere in the Indian Ocean. Possible involvement of land forces to prop up allies on the Indian subcontinent as well if it gets that far.

2. Either empire takes control of Persia for some period, allowing them to share a border. Depending on how strong each state is, either Persia is liberated from its conqueror or the conqueror uses control of Persia to help impose their will on the other empire.

@scholar, did you mean Rome loses direct access to the Indian ocean? Rome losing access to the Mediterranean is very nearly impossible without killing them.
 

scholar

Banned
Loving some of these responses. I admit I'm a bit surprised I've never seen @scholar, did you mean Rome loses direct access to the Indian ocean? Rome losing access to the Mediterranean is very nearly impossible without killing them.
I did.

As for the second scenario... The Tang Dynasty supported the restoration of Sasssanid Persia, sending tens of thousands of troops into the westermost edges of India, Afghanistan, and possibly entering the outer rim of Persia. The campaigns were ultimately unsuccessful and later on the Arab-Chinese border conflicts would end in a strategic victory for the Arabs and the Tang retreated from the Aral Sea and neighboring regions entirely with An Lushan's rebellion.

Avoid the single most devastating rebellion of China's history from the Fragmentary period to the fall of the Ming, about 1000 years of history, and make the restoration campaign successful (culminating in the Arab Caliphate's collapse and the resurgence of the Eastern Rome Empire) and you easily have a border. How heavily the Chinese will be involved in any conflict is up in the air, but there would be some presence if the war is immediate.
 
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