AHC: Singapore Wank

[hsthompson]

I've spent four years in the UK. No thanks. Some of it is beautiful, the majority is worthless.

Street artists have have designated public spaces for tagging, and friendly private establishment owners can open their structures for tagging too. I don't see why random places should be open for vandalism by random schmuck.

To each place its own way I think. I like the orderly poetry quotations on the walls of buildings you have in Leiden, or the savage, well executed street art you see in out of the way places in Valencia, but even if both of them have quality, neither would fit Singapore in my opinion.

Actually, in what regards graffiti... the only example I saw of that brand of vandalism in Singapore when I was there a few months ago was...

...curious to say the least.

I'm not sure whether it looks more like the ramblings of a whole discombobulation of lunatics or the coded messages from some underground resistance.

Explanations not involving lunatics or conspiracies via private message are most welcome.

 

[Thoresby]

I agree but that's not justification for autocracy. As they they developed and prospered the ROK and Taiwan moved from dictatorship to to democracy. Singapore was never as oppressive as their their regimes were were but that doesn't justify the ruling ruling party staying in power.

I think the People's Action Party competence and relative liberalism compared to the KMT is precisely why Singapore hasn't changed that much in political terms. Like Britain in the late 19th century Singapore started out more democratic than most other places which has enabled the PAP to maintain its dominance while the other One Party states have changed.

 

[MattII]

If Singapore is made the capital (or Financial Capital at least) of Malaysia, is that considered a wank for Singapore, Malaysia, or a bit for both?

 

[Flocculencio]

I think the People's Action Party competence and relative liberalism compared to the KMT is precisely why Singapore hasn't changed that much in political terms. Like Britain in the late 19th century Singapore started out more democratic than most other places which has enabled the PAP to maintain its dominance while the other One Party states have changed.

The thing is they're not that competent, and as someone who as to live here, relative liberalism still falls short of even the most basic liberal democratic standards.

 

[Flocculencio]

If Singapore is made the capital (or Financial Capital at least) of Malaysia, is that considered a wank for Singapore, Malaysia, or a bit for both?

Boost for Malaysia, relative drop for Singapore. For all intents and purposes we're already Malaysia's financial capital anyway.

 

[Flocculencio]

To each place its own way I think. I like the orderly poetry quotations on the walls of buildings you have in Leiden, or the savage, well executed street art you see in out of the way places in Valencia, but even if both of them have quality, neither would fit Singapore in my opinion.

Actually, in what regards graffiti... the only example I saw of that brand of vandalism in Singapore when I was there a few months ago was...

...curious to say the least.

I'm not sure whether it looks more like the ramblings of a whole discombobulation of lunatics or the coded messages from some underground resistance.

Explanations not involving lunatics or conspiracies via private message are most welcome.

That's...interesting. I have no idea what it means either. It's just one lunatic, though- the handwriting is all the same.

 

[EternalCynic]

I recall there were proposals for Singapore to lease Batam for a fixed period. Was that ever serious or just a pipedream? Wouldn't that be a Singapore-wank?

 

[Flocculencio]

I recall there were proposals for Singapore to lease Batam for a fixed period. Was that ever serious or just a pipedream? Wouldn't that be a Singapore-wank?

Not really. In the end that sort of turned into the SIJORI growth triangle (Singapore-Johore-Riau) where a lot of Singaporean manufacturing got offshored to Johore and Batam through a network of semi-free-trade zone agreements.

 

[ramones1986]

Here's my question, Flocc:
Singapore was the center of Malay movie industry and cultural capital before 1970s, when Kuala Lumpur took over those credits.

If Singapore remained as part of Malaysia, how it will affect the cultural scene, as well as movie and broadcasting industry?

 

[Thoresby]

The thing is they're not that competent, and as someone who as to live here, relative liberalism still falls short of even the most basic liberal democratic standards.

Maybe the PAP isn't that competent now but considering Singapores track record over the last 40 years they must have been pretty competent in the past.

 

[Flocculencio]

Maybe the PAP isn't that competent now but considering Singapores track record over the last 40 years they must have been pretty competent in the past.

Singapore is tiny and it had a preexisting history as a major port. It's basically sim city on easy mode. It was handled very well in the 60s and 70s (note that it was actually somewhat less repressive back then) but that doesn't justify the repressive tactics the PAP has used since Lee Kuan Yew consolidated his power and made the party his own toy in the 80s

 

[Flocculencio]

Here's my question, Flocc:
Singapore was the center of Malay movie industry and cultural capital before 1970s, when Kuala Lumpur took over those credits.

If Singapore remained as part of Malaysia, how it will affect the cultural scene, as well as movie and broadcasting industry?

I think we'd have a much more vibrant and less sinicised arts scene

 

[Green Painting]

I think we'd have a much more vibrant and less sinicised arts scene

No PAP rule would mean a less de-sinicised art scene. Remember Nantah closure?

Singapore is tiny and it had a preexisting history as a major port. It's basically sim city on easy mode. It was handled very well in the 60s and 70s (note that it was actually somewhat less repressive back then) but that doesn't justify the repressive tactics the PAP has used since Lee Kuan Yew consolidated his power and made the party his own toy in the 80s

Singapore in the 1950/60s reminds me of Lebanon before Civil War. Prosperous? yes. But there were so many ways it could go wrong.

 

[Flocculencio]

No PAP rule would mean a less de-sinicised art scene. Remember Nantah closure?

I get your point but speaking as a Singaporean Indian, our current arts scene may be heavily neutered but it's still very Mandarin focused. I suspect you'd see a much more vibrant Hokkien, Teochew and Cantonese arts and drama scene alongside the Malay and English arts scenes with Mandarin being much less prominent.

Singapore in the 1950/60s reminds me of Lebanon before Civil War. Prosperous? yes. But there were so many ways it could go wrong.

There were many ways it could have gone much better. My personal favourite AH scenario for Singapore is a Singapore gaining independence under David Marshall with his genuine centre-left Labour government.

As I've said, my issue isn't so much with the 60s and 70s. Lee Kuan Yew didn't have total power within the party and the majority of government policies were about helping people progress and prosper. It's only in the late 70s when he neutered the other powerful party members and cracked down on everything he felt challenged him that Singapore slid deeper into autocracy.

 

[KingBamba]

It's a running joke that despite it's puny size, Singapore's military might well overrun Malaysia's in days. Singapore definitely has far better trained reserves thanks to its National Service. Its military budget is more than twice Malaysia's. Its air force fields 240 combat aircraft to Malaysia's 60. Together with the army and navy they far outclass the Malaysian armed forces in equipment (both in terms of quantity and technology) and manpower.

For a Singapore wank, you could imagine a more extremist government taking over in Malaysia and taking an aggressive posture towards Singapore. In fact, this might involve nothing more than cutting off Singapore's water supply from the Peninsula. Singapore retaliates, and seizes an area comprising the mainland coast of the Singapore straits, Johor Bahru, and some inland territory to ensure their water supply and the safety of shipping coming into their all-important port. Multiple assaults by a poorly prepared Malaysian army fail, the Malaysian airforce is annihilated, the navy as well if it leaves port.

In a peace treaty you could see Singapore maintaining a presence on the mainland and securing rights to access Malaysia's freshwater supply. In the occupied zone Singaporean companies would open shop over time (even if sovereignty would still technically belong to Malaysia). Many elements of Malaysian society might even be welcoming. As demographics shift, southern Johorea may become de facto Singaporean territory.

If that seems ASB, you only need to look at the history of Israel following the Six-Day War.

 

[ramones1986]

I think we'd have a much more vibrant and less sinicised arts scene

So, in this scenario, the arts scene in a Malaysian Singapore is more varied.

And I'm thinking that RTM will buy the Shaw Studios there and convert it into a TV production studio complex.

 

[Tredecimus]

@KingBamba

I read somewhere on the net that Singapore's air force is so strong it could take on Malaysia and Indonesia's air forces combined. Is it true? And is it considered a wank already?

 

[b0ned0me]

The thing is they're not that competent

Relative to which government? Malaysia? Indonesia? Thailand? Vietnam? China? Korea?

Singapore seems to have lucked out relative to the rest of the neighbourhood, and I don't think its done too badly relative to the rest of the world either, it's not like consistently competent government is the norm.

 

[KingBamba]

@KingBamba

I read somewhere on the net that Singapore's air force is so strong it could take on Malaysia and Indonesia's air forces combined. Is it true? And is it considered a wank already?

They are a wank. Their little island has a GDP that regularly exceeds the whole of Malaysia's. Per capita they earn 7 times more than their comrades across the Causeway. They probably could take on both the air forces. Indonesia too has only about 50 combat aircraft and just 10 F-16s at the most. In the news today the Singaporean government just spent $2.3 billion to upgrade their own fleet of more than 70 F-16s, pending a decision on whether to replace them with the F-35.

 

[Flocculencio]

Relative to which government? Malaysia? Indonesia? Thailand? Vietnam? China? Korea?

Singapore seems to have lucked out relative to the rest of the neighbourhood, and I don't think its done too badly relative to the rest of the world either, it's not like consistently competent government is the norm.

That's not an acceptable excuse. In its own rhetoric the government compares itself to to Switzerland. That's the standard I hold them to.