With a POD after 1549 (the arrival of the Jesuits), the challenge isto have at least 10% of the Japanese population at least self-identifying as Catholic in 2000. Bonus points if it is 15% or higher.
AHC: Significant Catholic population in Japan
- Thread starter Francisco Cojuanco
- Start date
birdboy2000
Banned
Keep it tolerated after the Sengoku era ends. This probably requires better relations with Spain and/or Portugal, so that the kirishitans don't come to be seen as a threat - OTL the fear that they'd serve as a fifth column played a role in their suppression.
Deleted member 67076
Have Spain or Portugal conquer and hold on to Japan for over 100 years, that might do it.
make so the Shimabara Rebellion doesn't even get off the ground, one way or the other (less dissatisfaction within the christian minority) ... then the Shogunate doesn't have (as much of) a reason to banish Portuguese Traders due to suspicions of fermenting revolt
Another opinion that might could help along would be to lower the ammount of 'Protestant' Dutch/English traders so they can't slander Portugal and Spain for knowingly push Catholicism, as a way to make the far east socially unstable
Another opinion that might could help along would be to lower the ammount of 'Protestant' Dutch/English traders so they can't slander Portugal and Spain for knowingly push Catholicism, as a way to make the far east socially unstable
Lycaon pictus
Donor
This TL has gone into suspended animation, but it seems to be headed in that direction.
Deleted member 67076
No...
Anyways have them conquer the island (or much of it anyway) and not act like assholes to the Japanese, that'll help substantially
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Japan did not go down to European colonialism ITTL, which is essentially a giant Euro-wank. What would make European colonialism in Japan possible ITTL?
If there is a small Catholic population, then they might even help a Catholic power invade which was one of the fears the Tokugawa had about them in the first place. It is worth remembering that such a few Spanish sailors drunkenly boasted this would happen leading to the Sakoku era and it did come true in Vietnam where the French were helped by Catholic militias. If such a thing happens then Japan may become even more Catholic than before.
Portugal was more than happy to support Christianity in Japan, they even on occasions like the Siege of Moji provide support. The problem is that the Dutch start swallowing all of Portugal's colonies so they are less and less focused on Japan. You would need si for Portugal and the Portugesse empire to remaine strong in order for Chritianity to grow under their protection. This would probably need a POD where Spanish invasion of Portugal does not to occur and the are Dutch preoccupied with the Spanish or English. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Moji
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Moji
I like this idea. It helps show how events seemingly unrelated actually impact each other. Philip II not becoming King of Portugal results in higher Catholic population in Japan. The one does not seem like it would follow the other, but it is a plausible link.
Makes one really think about the historical forces at work and how much depends on chance. I think that is what good AH does.
Spain was on good terms with Japan long after the Iberian Union. It was Japan who chose to isolate itself, not a lack of interest from the Iberians or the Dutch driving them out of the region.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasekura_Tsunenaga
Spain even established a base in Taiwan *after* Japan went anti-Catholic, which would remain for 20 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Taiwan
So any POD would have tobe searched in the islands themselves, not out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasekura_Tsunenaga
Spain even established a base in Taiwan *after* Japan went anti-Catholic, which would remain for 20 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Taiwan
So any POD would have tobe searched in the islands themselves, not out.
Yes, but Japan would never be able to isolate it's self if Portugal is around and powerful. Portugal would send supplies, support their friendly Christian Daimyo in Kyushu. The Otomo family would never have bowed to Hideyoshi or Tokugawa. The Otomo's at their height of power in 1570 had over 60,000 men under arms. The only reason they forced to except the Shogun later is that without Portuguese help they got worn out fighting Mori and Ryuzoji in the Chikuzen province. In addition to this the Arima and Shimazu families in Kyushu would probably resist heavily as well with Portuguese support. So i suppose in this universe Japan would be split in two a Portuguese backed state in Kyushu that is unisolated and a Shogun controlled rest of Japan that would be isolated. on a further note this butterflies the Japanese invasion of Korea.
source
War in Japan 1467-1615 by Stephen Turnbull
elkarlo
Banned
Even then. The 100 or so Iberians would need some serious ASBs help to take over a disunited Japan. Unless things during the sengoku are so awful that foreign or foreign influenced rule seems OK. Which is ASB for japan
Well, I'm assuming that any attempt at 100 or so Iberians is out. More like how Britain took India as theoretically possible.
hasdrubal barca: But how does that 60,000 compare to their enemies?