AHC Screw Russia as hard as possible.
- Thread starter Hugh Third of Five
- Start date
thaddeus
Donor
the first could become a POD for chaos leading to the second, St. Petersburg is on the same (approx.) parallel.
would Imperial Russia even become involved in WWI? which would seem the "safer" side to join? Central Powers, and just not support Serbia?
thus a revolution AND end up on the losing side of WWI?
Yes it would the whites where only united through their opposition to the Bolsheviks. They had no set ideology their were monarchists Republicans kadets. Even other communist opposed to the Bolsheviks supported the white army. And people like Semyonov Sternburg kinda did their own thing. Odds are after they won the war they would turn their guns to each other.
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It would the destruction of infrastructure due to constant fighting would cause a lot of deaths. pogroms were common under the likes of Denkin. So ya it could get that high.
Probably. 10-20 years of constant war, pogroms, and ethnic cleansing in one of the most populous areas on earth would rack up a considerable death toll. Not to mention the famines and deaths from disease that would emerge due to the lack of food and medicine.
And this would be worse if the Nazi still came to power. Unlike otl where they had to fight a unified industrialized USSR they would fight what a bunch of Warlords with outdated equipment with maybe some modern shit they smuggled into the country? The Nazi's would pick them of one by one and they could really do general plan ost without that much Resistance.
Osman Aga
Banned
1. Russia is the same OTL until 1914
2. OE avoids any war since 1911 and remains neutral (important for later)
3. WW1, Russia experiences same defeats and revolutions
4. OE joins on Entente side, also helping to secure certain parts of Russia from the Communists
5. Lenin, Stalin and Trotsky die between 1918-1921 before the Bolsheviks achieve total victory, leaving them in chaos and good for the Whites to resist the Reds
Why is points 2 and 4 important? If there is one nation who has a lot to gain from a mauled Russia it is the OE. They can't achieve lasting things if they fight on the side of Central Powers and lose, they achieve even less if they experienced the defeats of 1911-1913. This is, "a screw as hard as possible" after all. This Ottoman Empire would encourage Central Asia, North Caucasus and even Ukraine to resist against a divided Russia, be it Kolchak's Russia or be it the Bolsheviks. Especially by getting the Russian forces out of the Caucasus and Black Sea region in favor the North Caucasus puppets and whatever regime rules in Kiev (Ukraine is a must). Anything beyond Ukraine is something the UK/France has to deal with. If Russia descends into warlordism for at least 15-20 years since 1918 it is a net win. They cannot return to some of their former lands without provoking a general war.
If Russia sets out of Warlordism in 1933 or 1938 it would take at least three to four decades until it becomes a challenge to Europe/USA (unless a Soviet style industrialism takes place).
The musts:
1. Strong Ottoman Empire with 1911 borders
2. Ukraine having a government unwilling to join Russia
3. The UK willing to let the OE do its thing in Central Asia, Caucasus, Crimea etc. If the UK is against it, it will slow it down or make it impossible. The UK will likely get good deals with regards to oil in the Caucasus, Middle East and Central Asia. A new place open for British Goods, next to British-India seems ideal for London.
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The Whites actually were more divided politically speaking, so I would wonder how White Russia progresses being as totalitarian as the USSR.
Maybe fall into another civil war in a worst-case scenario.
One could argue that the White factions were all authoritarian but none had the impulse to be totalitarian like the Bolshies, except maybe fringe loonies like Sternberg. A White regime would be like Franco, not Moose or Hitler. Franco's Spain was ultimately reformable. So would a White regime, over decades. But the immediate outcome would be like Franco's Spain after the Civil War, pretty violent with a lot of death. Not a screw job compared to OTL.