AHC Screw Russia as hard as possible.
- Thread starter Hugh Third of Five
- Start date
marathag
Banned
Kirk knew the secret of Time Travel, and would fix things, even if it meant banging Pavel's Mom
Burton K Wheeler
Moderator
I've already kicked you for this type of bullshit. It should be extremely obvious that this is not the way to treat other posters, and since you clearly have no intention of being a productive part of this community, I'll just go ahead and ban you.
marathag
Banned
Don't need to be a Nazi to want the Russians screwed over. Talk to anyone Russia adjacent. They are not good neighbors.
Stalin purges Zukov and no one has the balls to tell Stalin that there are not enough troops to defend Moscow
Moscow falls to make matters worse Stalin escapes along with several of his top sycophants.
Stalin declares Moscow must be retaken and shifts troops from the south to do it
Stalingrad falls Russian oil is cut off
Eventually the Russians do beat the Germans back
Allied forces meet at the Ukraine-Poland border
Stalin tries to keep the Soviet Union's losses secret but it is hard to hide the fact that 53 million Soviet citizens died and that the Soviet Union was running out of infantry at end
Post war the Soviet Union has to deal with a population who views a Soviet government as weak and incompetent as well as a serious shortage of young men
The stress of economic and societal collapse causes Stalin to have a stroke in 1948 he is cripled and does not die until 1952 giving the people around him enough time to build their own power bases and start a civil war.
When the Civil War finally ends the Soviet Union is divided into several smaller States all economically impoverished with a combined population of 120 million
Moscow falls to make matters worse Stalin escapes along with several of his top sycophants.
Stalin declares Moscow must be retaken and shifts troops from the south to do it
Stalingrad falls Russian oil is cut off
Eventually the Russians do beat the Germans back
Allied forces meet at the Ukraine-Poland border
Stalin tries to keep the Soviet Union's losses secret but it is hard to hide the fact that 53 million Soviet citizens died and that the Soviet Union was running out of infantry at end
Post war the Soviet Union has to deal with a population who views a Soviet government as weak and incompetent as well as a serious shortage of young men
The stress of economic and societal collapse causes Stalin to have a stroke in 1948 he is cripled and does not die until 1952 giving the people around him enough time to build their own power bases and start a civil war.
When the Civil War finally ends the Soviet Union is divided into several smaller States all economically impoverished with a combined population of 120 million
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SHWI had some "russia asunder" timeline in the late 90s with the russian civil war leading to russia being divided not only on ethnic lines but a few different russian states.
Russian history continues as OTL until the Russian Civil War. Instead of the Reds winning as IOTL, the White Army is able to pull off a narrow victory by capturing Petrograd and Moscow only to then immediately fall apart into warring factions due to their lack of unified command. Meanwhile, most of the ethnic minorities of the former empire are able to gain independence because of the collapse of any central government.
*
1890-1920 timeframe? Here goes but its pretty ASB.
*Japan manages to not only destroy the Russian Pacific fleet but also manages to inflict disproportionately high losses on the Russian army as well. Britain offers stronger backing to Japan hoping to stick the knife further into Russia in the peace deal due to a more deadly clash in the North sea with the Royal Navy. Thus, Teddy Roosevelt fails to limit Japan's demands resulting in it gaining all of Karafuto, Kuril and heavy indemnities. Britain also backs Japanese interests in Manchuria but not into China proper which further humiliates Russia,
*Tsar Nicholas II refuses to sign October Manifesto in 1905, arguing much longer on the point than OTL, peasant and civil workers revolt much more violently. Cities are seized by the rebels since the Tsar lacks the initial military power to put down the rebellion everywhere quickly. Eventually, the military does rally and we end up with a massacre and long standing simmering hatred of Nicholas and his family,
*1908-Tunguska incident occurs over Moscow, wiping the city off the map and further crippling the Russian economy.
*1909-Military step in and the Tsar and his family are placed under house arrests following mass protests over the economy and general continued unpopularity of Tsar Nicholas II.
*1910-Military clique evolves into a greedy kleptocracy so bad that some wish for the Tsar's return. A botched rescue by lingering supporters leads to death of the entirety of the Tsar's family. The event captures international headlines and condemnation from other powers leading to increasing diplomatic isolation.
*1911-Famine cripples the country due to bad harvests and inefficient distribution systems. Military modernisation is much reduced due to massive corruption.
*1914-Russia is on the cusp of civil war with various classes and ethnic groups finding the government increasingly intolerable. July incident still occurs and the Russian regime still mobilises against Austria-Hungary leading to a declaration of war from Germany and Austria-Hungary.
*1914-1916-war is a catastrophe for the Russian army which has been hollowed out by years of neglect and a failure to invest in new equipment and logistical support. Huge casualties suffered against Austria-Hungary alone, mass desertions occur and various ethnic groups take the opportunity to declare independence leading to rapid CP in-roads into Poland, Ukraine and the Baltic states.
*1916-government collapses and Russia lapses into full blown civil war between separatists, communists and militarists along with any number of minor factions.
* 1918-the earlier bowing out of Russia results in a CP victory. The civil war concludes with a hyper religious/ quasi fascist dictatorship (led by Rasputin) in charge wanting to return Russia to its perfect state-a rural agrarian society. They sign a peace deal with Germany losing all the Baltic states, Poland, Ukraine, Caucasus and much of Belorussia. Japan opportunistically annexes everything in E. Siberia. The Russian dictatorship begins to systematically destroy the Urban infrastructure of the state and moves people to the countryside to work on communal farms ( think Pol-Pot but worse and longer).
*1920-Russia is a failed, horrible 3rd world state with a dictatorship rapidly killing off its own population through famine, forced labour and deliberate murderous desire.
1890-1920 timeframe? Here goes but its pretty ASB.
*Japan manages to not only destroy the Russian Pacific fleet but also manages to inflict disproportionately high losses on the Russian army as well. Britain offers stronger backing to Japan hoping to stick the knife further into Russia in the peace deal due to a more deadly clash in the North sea with the Royal Navy. Thus, Teddy Roosevelt fails to limit Japan's demands resulting in it gaining all of Karafuto, Kuril and heavy indemnities. Britain also backs Japanese interests in Manchuria but not into China proper which further humiliates Russia,
*Tsar Nicholas II refuses to sign October Manifesto in 1905, arguing much longer on the point than OTL, peasant and civil workers revolt much more violently. Cities are seized by the rebels since the Tsar lacks the initial military power to put down the rebellion everywhere quickly. Eventually, the military does rally and we end up with a massacre and long standing simmering hatred of Nicholas and his family,
*1908-Tunguska incident occurs over Moscow, wiping the city off the map and further crippling the Russian economy.
*1909-Military step in and the Tsar and his family are placed under house arrests following mass protests over the economy and general continued unpopularity of Tsar Nicholas II.
*1910-Military clique evolves into a greedy kleptocracy so bad that some wish for the Tsar's return. A botched rescue by lingering supporters leads to death of the entirety of the Tsar's family. The event captures international headlines and condemnation from other powers leading to increasing diplomatic isolation.
*1911-Famine cripples the country due to bad harvests and inefficient distribution systems. Military modernisation is much reduced due to massive corruption.
*1914-Russia is on the cusp of civil war with various classes and ethnic groups finding the government increasingly intolerable. July incident still occurs and the Russian regime still mobilises against Austria-Hungary leading to a declaration of war from Germany and Austria-Hungary.
*1914-1916-war is a catastrophe for the Russian army which has been hollowed out by years of neglect and a failure to invest in new equipment and logistical support. Huge casualties suffered against Austria-Hungary alone, mass desertions occur and various ethnic groups take the opportunity to declare independence leading to rapid CP in-roads into Poland, Ukraine and the Baltic states.
*1916-government collapses and Russia lapses into full blown civil war between separatists, communists and militarists along with any number of minor factions.
* 1918-the earlier bowing out of Russia results in a CP victory. The civil war concludes with a hyper religious/ quasi fascist dictatorship (led by Rasputin) in charge wanting to return Russia to its perfect state-a rural agrarian society. They sign a peace deal with Germany losing all the Baltic states, Poland, Ukraine, Caucasus and much of Belorussia. Japan opportunistically annexes everything in E. Siberia. The Russian dictatorship begins to systematically destroy the Urban infrastructure of the state and moves people to the countryside to work on communal farms ( think Pol-Pot but worse and longer).
*1920-Russia is a failed, horrible 3rd world state with a dictatorship rapidly killing off its own population through famine, forced labour and deliberate murderous desire.
How about if the 6 volcanoes in Russia that went off in that period do bigger and longer?
Have the Volcano Explosivity Index for each be 6 or more.
When the ‘top 10 most damaging volcano eruptions’ lists are made, these are all on them.
Or would these be ASB, and I should find something more possible?
Have the Volcano Explosivity Index for each be 6 or more.
When the ‘top 10 most damaging volcano eruptions’ lists are made, these are all on them.
Or would these be ASB, and I should find something more possible?
Have things go down a bit differently during the invasion of Poland. The aim is to have Britain bomb Baku and the western allies cutting ties with the USSR. When eventually Barbarossa starts, they just sit and watch and without Allied aid, the Russians lose Moscow, Stalingrad and Leningrad. They keep fighting though and the Germans overstretch trying to reach the Urals, allowing for more successful Allied landings in France and Italy. Berlin is taken by the Allies and German forces surrender to them, basically allowing all of Eastern Europe to be in the Western sphere. Postwar Soviets are much weakened, but due to their actions against Poland are treated as an enemy, so even though the world is more unipolar, a lighter Cold War occurs. The Soviets are much weaker, sure, but they may not split with China, so it is still a credible enough threat. Due to more paranoia however, the USSR remains staunchly Stalinist and it continues to be a North Korea on steroids even to this day.
Whites are stronger than IOTL, but not enough to win decisively, Civil War is longer and bloodier and ends with very narrow victory of either Reds or Whites. Not only Poland, Finland and Baltic States but also Ukraine, Caucasus, and Central Asia became independent.
Typical Central Powers victory 1918, B-L is enforced, Whites win RCW, radicalize themselves into Russian version of Nazism, turn Russia into a totalitarian dictatorship, start a war/or intervenes in an ongoing war, to reclaim lost territories 20 years later, lose aforementioned war, and collapse into insane warlordist mishmash.
EDIT: I know, that it isn't really in a given time scope, but PoD is in a time scope, so technically this can be accepted as a variant
EDIT: I know, that it isn't really in a given time scope, but PoD is in a time scope, so technically this can be accepted as a variant
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The Whites winning would not screw Russia, since you remove the Communists. No Stalin, no purges, no famine.
The Nazis are outside the scope of this thread.
Wouldn’t the White winning have the possibility to result in a Warlord Russia ?
Maybe, maybe not. But we know what is coming with Stalin and company, a century of totalitarian government with a brief break during the Yeltsin era.
The after effects of Communism in Russia are going to last for a long time.
Would the number of deaths in a Warlord Russia really exceed the number of deaths during the Ukraine famine and the purges? It would have to exceed 7 million people to break even...
IMHO, the Red win in the Civil War was essentially a "Screw Russia" scenario, even if most of the deaths came outside the boundries of the modern Russian Federation.
(Edit: update that number to 12 million (1921-22 Famine + Holdimor = roughly 12 million dead))
The after effects of Communism in Russia are going to last for a long time.
Would the number of deaths in a Warlord Russia really exceed the number of deaths during the Ukraine famine and the purges? It would have to exceed 7 million people to break even...
IMHO, the Red win in the Civil War was essentially a "Screw Russia" scenario, even if most of the deaths came outside the boundries of the modern Russian Federation.
(Edit: update that number to 12 million (1921-22 Famine + Holdimor = roughly 12 million dead))
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