AHC: Screw Europe post-1945

ETK023

There are a few Europe-screws out there, but none are post 1945, so I thought this might be an interesting thread.

With a POD no earlier than September 2nd, 1945, make Europe significantly worse off than it is today. Bad economies, war, corruption, the full package.

No worldwide disaster scenarios. Preferably no WW3, but wars primarily limited to Europe are allowed. Should include most of Europe, so no leaving Western Europe out.

Is this even possible, or is it ASB?

My only idea is that Europe somehow fails to recover from WW2 long enough that it becomes the new normal, but I don't know how or if that could happen.
 

Lalli

Americans decide go with Morgenthau Plan instead Marshall Plan. Austria is still divided but Soviet Austrian occupation zone becomes semi-independent communist state. Soviet Union manages to organise communist coup,ent in Finland. France falls to civil war. No Marshall Plan on some reason and so European countries can't recover. Italy too falls to civil war and is divided to pro-Soviet North Italy (not necessarilty totally communist) andn pro-American neo-fascist South Italy. Communists win Greek Civil War. No formation of European-wide organisations like European COmmunity.

Irish Troubles are much worse than in OTL. There might be even war between Britain and Ireland. Britain never fully recover from WW2 and remain much poorer and more conservative. Scottish separatists become more radical and there is too some terrorist acts.

Stalin lives couple years longer screwing Soviet Union even further. USSR anyway manage to survive until 1980's when it is dissovled after violent civil war which too saw usage of nuclear weapons. Collapse of communism in other European countries are more violent (at least as violent as OTL Romania). Estonia and Latvia falls to civil war between native speakers and Russians. Romania falls to multiside civil war. Ukraine too falls to civil war between Ukrainian and Russian speakers. Yugoslavia is dissolved eve with bigger brutality as in OTL seeing Bosnia being divided between Croatia and Serbia and Muslims being expelled. In Spain and Portugal fascism last until 1980's and in both these falls quiet violently. Furthermore in Catalonia andn Basque Land begin War of independence.

Russia is really screwed, worsely than in OTL. it becomes extrmely nationalist and begin vioelntly russificate minorities and there is many wars in Caucasus. Armenia and Azerbaijan too fall war with each others. Russia invades Baltic Republics and Ukraine. Poland falls to etreme nationalist and ultra-Catholic dictatorship. Germany remain still quiet poor thanks of Morgenthau Plan which de-industrialised and balkanised Germany. Hungary see rise of etremely nationalist government and it begins to wage wars with its neigb ors.

Due increased Islamic terrorism islamophobia rises and many goovernments adopt extremely harsh legistarue against Muslims. Europe too see some border wars.
 
Mitridates the Great

Mitridates the Great

You would probably need the United States not to do the Marshall Plan, perhaps because free market fundamentalists came to power and decided that investing money to rebuild the economy was communism and that "the invisible hand of the market, which can do anything, will fix it." Only it can't, and Europe is left limping and limping for much of the 1950s and 1960s.

This lack of funds leaves European countries bankrupt, which in turn results in a lack of funds for their armies. As a result, decolonization wars are even worse for Europe, sending many more ex-colonists repatriated to Europe.

This massive influx of refugees further increases the pressures on the already overstretched local economy. Which translates into tensions that erupt into open conflicts.

In France there is a civil war over Algeria, since Algerian separatism is considered the last straw. Seeing France fall into chaos causes the flight of many French to neighboring countries, which only adds more problems to these countries. In Italy the Communist Party will probably attempt a rebellion, especially if the Communists in Greece have won before (UK threw in the towel due to lack of funds and the United States refused to help because "it is too expensive".)

1968 only exacerbates the problems, as Europe now faces its own youth. The crackdown on protests only causes unrest to throw Europe into chaos.

Later, in 1973, the oil crisis occurred, which further screwed Europe (which had tried to clean up its economy by selling arms to Israel, hence why the crisis occurs anyway) ...

Continuing at this rate, it is possible that at TTL 2020 Europe will have more in common with South America in society and politics than with OTL Europe.
 
Mad Bad Rabbit

Mad Bad Rabbit

USSR comes up with a plan to raise hard currency: sell low-yield nukes and short-range delivery sysyems to both sides of the many conflicts simmering among the heavily balkanized nations of Europe.
 
Gabingston

Gabingston

Mitridates the Great said:
You would probably need the United States not to do the Marshall Plan, perhaps because free market fundamentalists came to power and decided that investing money to rebuild the economy was communism and that "the invisible hand of the market, which can do anything, will fix it." Only it can't, and Europe is left limping and limping for much of the 1950s and 1960s.
Click to expand...
Except that the Marshall Plan was adopted in large part to keep Western Europe from going Communist, so even free market fundamentalists might find it a worthwhile investment, if only to keep the red menace from spreading any further.
 

Cudymcar

Operation Gladio is out of control, death squads are on killer spree, dropping left politicians, anti-war activists, Jehovah's witnesses, and gay people.
 

Peg Leg Pom

Another Flu Pandemic on the scale of the Spanish Flu rages across Europe starting in the winter of 1945/46 and lasting through the winter of 1947/48. With Europe a shattered ruin the number of casualties would be horrific.
 

Belisarius II

The United States does the same stupid thing it did in the 1920's, and demands it's money back. The Communists win the Italian elections of 1948. Communists win the Greek Civil War. The Americans leave Europe in 1947, leaving the UK holding the bag. The British, and French agree with the Soviets to keep Germany divided, with the French taking the American Zone, and all of Berlin in East Germany. Just start with that, and work forward.
 

saltburn861

POD here is 1989.
Post-George H.W. Bush presidency, a mass exodus of Americans fleeing to Europe due to dissatisfaction with the Bush administration.
The Netherlands, Italy, Spain, United Kingdom, Austria, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Portugal, Belgium, Republic of Ireland all face a lot of Americans actually carrying out their threat to move their permanently.

Like a refugee crisis, but here, it's down to dissatisfaction with the U.S. since the days of Gerald Ford.

Large American enclaves in some cities and clashes between the locals and Americans.

Note, since current politics isn't allowed, I've gone with 1989.

However, ITTL, support for Scottish independence remains low; IRA leaders threaten George H.W. Bush publically on television.

Also, ITTL, South Tyrol in Italy seeks to rejoin Austria and feel cultural affinity with Austrian culture as compared to Italian; maybe a few terrorist acts for their cause.

In March 1990, Brøndby Strand, Copenhagen; a man shoots his girlfriend, a shop worker and two men in a shop, apparently ranting about the European Community and wanting Denmark to leave the EU, he claims "Danmark skal forlade Den Europæiske Union, vi er en nation, der bør forblive på egen hånd! Den Europæiske Union er narre, der fortjener at gå til helvede! Fuck dig! (in Danish, Denmark should leave the EU and are fools).

July 1990: Dutch government corruption scandal exposed with something relating to kickbacks and prostitution.

September 1990: Tyrol, Austria; Man shoots protestor who crosses over the border protesting about how South Tyrol should join Austria; review of gun laws.

October - November 1990: Conflict between Americans and Spanish in Barcelona, with rioting going on for several days.

January 1991: Anti-EU protests begin in Italy, calling for Italy to leave the EU and fights break out in the streets.

March 1991: Ford cars held up in port in Italy by Greenpeace protestors (the vehicles are Mustang V8 and Explorer SUVs)

April 1991: Ferrari plant blockaded by Greenpeace protestors who feel they are damaging the environment.

June 1991: Riots in London, England; Chicago, Illinois; Madrid, Spain; Berlin, Germany; protesting about issues in their country.

September 1991: Naho Tabata, a 25-year-old, Japanese expatriate in Rome, Italy is murdered by xenophobic rioters

November 1991: Indo-Canadian man, Viswamitra Dheer, an expat in Rome, beaten by xenophobic rioters in Italy who want Indians to leave the country.

Is this the sort of timeline you were expecting?
 

MrHaakwood

Lalli said:
Americans decide go with Morgenthau Plan instead Marshall Plan. Austria is still divided but Soviet Austrian occupation zone becomes semi-independent communist state. Soviet Union manages to organise communist coup,ent in Finland. France falls to civil war. No Marshall Plan on some reason and so European countries can't recover. Italy too falls to civil war and is divided to pro-Soviet North Italy (not necessarilty totally communist) andn pro-American neo-fascist South Italy. Communists win Greek Civil War. No formation of European-wide organisations like European COmmunity.

Irish Troubles are much worse than in OTL. There might be even war between Britain and Ireland. Britain never fully recover from WW2 and remain much poorer and more conservative. Scottish separatists become more radical and there is too some terrorist acts.

Stalin lives couple years longer screwing Soviet Union even further. USSR anyway manage to survive until 1980's when it is dissovled after violent civil war which too saw usage of nuclear weapons. Collapse of communism in other European countries are more violent (at least as violent as OTL Romania). Estonia and Latvia falls to civil war between native speakers and Russians. Romania falls to multiside civil war. Ukraine too falls to civil war between Ukrainian and Russian speakers. Yugoslavia is dissolved eve with bigger brutality as in OTL seeing Bosnia being divided between Croatia and Serbia and Muslims being expelled. In Spain and Portugal fascism last until 1980's and in both these falls quiet violently. Furthermore in Catalonia andn Basque Land begin War of independence.

Russia is really screwed, worsely than in OTL. it becomes extrmely nationalist and begin vioelntly russificate minorities and there is many wars in Caucasus. Armenia and Azerbaijan too fall war with each others. Russia invades Baltic Republics and Ukraine. Poland falls to etreme nationalist and ultra-Catholic dictatorship. Germany remain still quiet poor thanks of Morgenthau Plan which de-industrialised and balkanised Germany. Hungary see rise of etremely nationalist government and it begins to wage wars with its neigb ors.

Due increased Islamic terrorism islamophobia rises and many goovernments adopt extremely harsh legistarue against Muslims. Europe too see some border wars.
Click to expand...
As much as I love this story, one nitpick: There wouldnt be any muslim migrants in Europe. Or hardly any.
 
Gillan1220

Gillan1220

No Marshall Plan. Both the Western Allies and the Red Army just withdraw to pre-1939 positions.
althistory.fandom.com

Wasteland Europe

Wasteland Europe depicts what Europe would look like if the United States had not initiated the Marshall Plan for European Recovery. In OTL, former Secretary of State George Marshall created the European Recovery Plan, also known as the Marshall Plan. This plan would be used to turn Europe into...
althistory.fandom.com althistory.fandom.com
 

Lalli

saltburn861 said:
POD here is 1989.
Post-George H.W. Bush presidency, a mass exodus of Americans fleeing to Europe due to dissatisfaction with the Bush administration.
The Netherlands, Italy, Spain, United Kingdom, Austria, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Portugal, Belgium, Republic of Ireland all face a lot of Americans actually carrying out their threat to move their permanently.

Like a refugee crisis, but here, it's down to dissatisfaction with the U.S. since the days of Gerald Ford.

Large American enclaves in some cities and clashes between the locals and Americans.

Note, since current politics isn't allowed, I've gone with 1989.

However, ITTL, support for Scottish independence remains low; IRA leaders threaten George H.W. Bush publically on television.

Also, ITTL, South Tyrol in Italy seeks to rejoin Austria and feel cultural affinity with Austrian culture as compared to Italian; maybe a few terrorist acts for their cause.

In March 1990, Brøndby Strand, Copenhagen; a man shoots his girlfriend, a shop worker and two men in a shop, apparently ranting about the European Community and wanting Denmark to leave the EU, he claims "Danmark skal forlade Den Europæiske Union, vi er en nation, der bør forblive på egen hånd! Den Europæiske Union er narre, der fortjener at gå til helvede! Fuck dig! (in Danish, Denmark should leave the EU and are fools).

July 1990: Dutch government corruption scandal exposed with something relating to kickbacks and prostitution.

September 1990: Tyrol, Austria; Man shoots protestor who crosses over the border protesting about how South Tyrol should join Austria; review of gun laws.

October - November 1990: Conflict between Americans and Spanish in Barcelona, with rioting going on for several days.

January 1991: Anti-EU protests begin in Italy, calling for Italy to leave the EU and fights break out in the streets.

March 1991: Ford cars held up in port in Italy by Greenpeace protestors (the vehicles are Mustang V8 and Explorer SUVs)

April 1991: Ferrari plant blockaded by Greenpeace protestors who feel they are damaging the environment.

June 1991: Riots in London, England; Chicago, Illinois; Madrid, Spain; Berlin, Germany; protesting about issues in their country.

September 1991: Naho Tabata, a 25-year-old, Japanese expatriate in Rome, Italy is murdered by xenophobic rioters

November 1991: Indo-Canadian man, Viswamitra Dheer, an expat in Rome, beaten by xenophobic rioters in Italy who want Indians to leave the country.

Is this the sort of timeline you were expecting?
Click to expand...

I can't see mass migration happening, no matter how unhappy people would are with Bush. You would need USA collapsing totally efore you can get any migration.
 

brunohusker

Gabingston said:
Except that the Marshall Plan was adopted in large part to keep Western Europe from going Communist, so even free market fundamentalists might find it a worthwhile investment, if only to keep the red menace from spreading any further.
Click to expand...
Sure they might accept it’s better than communism but they don’t have to like it.
 

Retro_Reaction

Peg Leg Pom said:
Another Flu Pandemic on the scale of the Spanish Flu rages across Europe starting in the winter of 1945/46 and lasting through the winter of 1947/48. With Europe a shattered ruin the number of casualties would be horrific.
Click to expand...

The issue is that governments had learned how to mass produce vaccinations, and that the majority of troops were vaccinated for influenza during ww2, precisely because of the bastardly results of the post-ww1 demobilization.
 
Gabingston

Gabingston

Lalli said:
I can't see mass migration happening, no matter how unhappy people would are with Bush. You would need USA collapsing totally efore you can get any migration.
Click to expand...
America wasn't nearly as polarized and tense in the Late 80s and Early 90s as it is now, so I think a mass emigration of liberals due to the election of the respectable moderate conservative that was Bush 41 would be exceedingly unlikely.
 
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