AHC: Save The Ottoman Empire

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by KingOnTheEdge, Dec 2, 2019.

  1. KingOnTheEdge Vive La Revolucion

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    Mar 12, 2019
    otl, the period after the Siege of Vienna up to 1918 was bad for the ottomans- repulsed by their catholic rivals, loss of the balkans, greece, and the whole of north africa (not in that order), finally breathing it's last in 1918 for Ataturk to come in and create the modern republic.

    Your challenge: keep it a major power. it doesn't have to keep expanding (at that point it's just rome tbh) but it should keep its hold on the balkans, mesopotamia, arabia, and at least some of egypt. an industrialized and modern military institutions (from what i know the janisarries are actually what doomed its military otl)
     
  2. Heldenhammer For Are We Not All Sigmar's Heirs?

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    Aug 27, 2019
    Reduce its hold on historically rebellious regions of the Balkans and pull back to Bulgaria. Try to encourage the growth of nationalist movements in those areas to act as a buffer against Austria. Try to reconcile with Russia and perhaps Spain to lessen the threat to key border regions. Disband the Janisarries, since they are a major opponent to army and political modernization. Develop Ottoman Egypt and Arabia as semi-autonomous regions to try and satisfy people in those regions. Lastly, key to it is to maintain solid ties to the best minds of Europe in all fields so that they can keep up with rivals.

    Also, no Armenian genocide.
     
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  3. bbctol Well-Known Member

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    Oct 16, 2018
    Do you really think this would have helped? I always thought nationalism in general really harmed the Ottomans, making the millet system less palatable and long-conquered ethnic groups feel they could and should mount a challenge to the empire again (viz. the Greeks going from defeated Byzantines to organized campaigners for a distinctly Greek nation)
     
  4. Nivek Mental Anime,Videogames,Football And Baseball Fan

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    the opposite, the first moment, that is when austria and russian dogs want more blood
     
  5. Socrates Well-Known Member

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    Mar 13, 2011
    A fundamental problem the Ottomans have is that their interpretation of Sharia law meant they did not have the formation of permanent corporations, with liability separate from their shareholders, and also that income taxes were impossible. That limits their economic output per capita and also means the state can not get as much as its European rivals with regards to public investment or military spending. They also have the difficulty that they can't embrace Islamic nationalism without losing their Balkans subjects, and they can't embrace ethnic nationalism without losing either their Anatolian heartland or their Arab lands. If they are to survive it needs to be under the protection of a greater power, probably the British.
     
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  6. Paul MacQ Lurker

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    Without the total disaster of the Russo-Turkish War (1877–1878). The Ottoman constitution of 1876 of would unlikely have failed. The Young Ottomans started great reforms ( Russians passionately hated any liberal reforms) by the there power was on the rise. Young Ottomans might have been aiming to high with believing quote "that once the Christian population was represented in the legislative assembly, no foreign power could legitimize the promotion of her national interests under pretext of representing the rights of these people of religious and ethnic bonds." But probably would have helped.

    Russians especially hated idea of Ottoman liberal reforms. Have a reason for the Russian to back off. The poor man of Europe,(the culture and thought was very European centric. not Middle Eastern by 1870's) could have done reasonably well.

    Would also help One William Gladstone might have the wind taken out of his sails.

    Good reading on this is, if you can find a library with it.
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt183q0cn

    And Earlier "Auspicious Incident" would have been useful yes.

    Young Ottomans very different creatures to the Young Turks.
     
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  7. EnvarKadri Well-Known Member

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    Jun 9, 2018
  8. Heldenhammer For Are We Not All Sigmar's Heirs?

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    Aug 27, 2019
    I do think it would help. Austria-Hungary was the state most likely to expand into the Balkans after an Ottoman withdrawal. It was also one of three states that had a considerable stake in the region, the others being Russia and the Ottomans. In the event of several states breaking off, Austria would probably seek to attack while they are still weak. Hopefully, the Balkans would unite to resist the Austrians and seek the aid of one of the other great powers (probably Russia). The Balkan wall would protect Bulgaria and Istanbul, and less territory would help the Ottomans recover. It might lead to problems down the road, like Bulgarian nationalism, but would solve the immediate problem in the Balkans, which was the Ottomans being overextended.