AHC : Save the "name of" Carthage to at least Middle Age!

With POD no earlier than after the third Sicilian war (no earlier POD than 316 BC) try to save the "name of" Carthage to at least Middle Ages. That means they end up basically seen as our OTL Rome.

The original Carthage (as per 316 BC) could fall and or change their governing system several times, even the city of Carthage could end up fallen into Invasion as well. But have it having the enduring legacy like Rome (aka future King/Emperor/Leader whatever crown/name himself as King/Emperor/Shopet/President of The Carthaginians)

And by at least Middle Ages, I mean up to 1453, as per the fall of Constantinople who end the Eastern Roman Empire. (of course, that means Carthage did not have to use their original Phoenician language, but having Phoenician language end up as the Latin's status of academic language IOTL are good bonus point)
 

Deleted member 67076

This is pretty simple. Have the Muslims not damage Carthage beyond repair during the conquest of Africa and decide to use that as the capital of Ifriqiya instead of building Tunis.

Carthage is rebuilt and once again becomes a major city in the Mediterranean.
 
This is pretty simple. Have the Muslims not damage Carthage beyond repair during the conquest of Africa and decide to use that as the capital of Ifriqiya instead of building Tunis.

Carthage is rebuilt and once again becomes a major city in the Mediterranean.

Hmm, but what about the "Prestige" attached to the name of Carthage.
Sure, a major trade hub, bureaucratic center, and if you wish, Religious center of North Africa.

But nothing beats a city who lent her name as an Empire's name. I'm more thinking about a line when Carthage actually manage to either conquer, or even just hold off Rome for some significant part of time while still having their African and Spanish empire.
 
Hmm, but what about the "Prestige" attached to the name of Carthage.
Sure, a major trade hub, bureaucratic center, and if you wish, Religious center of North Africa.

But nothing beats a city who lent her name as an Empire's name. I'm more thinking about a line when Carthage actually manage to either conquer, or even just hold off Rome for some significant part of time while still having their African and Spanish empire.

So far as I can tell, the city was recaptured by the Byzantine navy briefly and then destroyed precisely because it was a major and prestigious city to try and remove a focus for outside attack or internal rebellion.
 
Impossible, save an Antiquity PoD (that could as well butterfly away MA).

Remember that the only source western medieval scholars would have about Carthage would be roman sources. These tended to be really depreciative.

The only thing that more or less saved the reputation of the city was the Christian patrons of the V/VIth century, but there's no real way that a city described as barbaric, practicing child sacrifice, adoring demons would have good press among medieval scholars.
 
Impossible, save an Antiquity PoD (that could as well butterfly away MA).

Remember that the only source western medieval scholars would have about Carthage would be roman sources. These tended to be really depreciative.

The only thing that more or less saved the reputation of the city was the Christian patrons of the V/VIth century, but there's no real way that a city described as barbaric, practicing child sacrifice, adoring demons would have good press among medieval scholars.

Uh guys POD is after 316 BC as per the first post
Antiquity POD

And not even a recognizable Middle age is a must, I merely asked for a name that contains prestige and sense of pride until at least 1453 AD, so if you butterfly Christianity, that would be acceptable because you can butterfly Rome
 
Uh guys POD is after 316 BC as per the first post
Antiquity POD
Antiquity POD
Middle-Ages is set after Antiquity, and an early PoD of such would butterfly away the period.

And not even a recognizable Middle age is a must, I merely asked for a name that contains prestige and sense of pride until at least 1453 AD, so if you butterfly Christianity, that would be acceptable because you can butterfly Rome
Thing is, Middle Ages are a period definied by historical events : fall of WRE, fall of ERE, roughly speaking.

Butterflying Rome is making the period hardly recognizable, and not as "How absence of Carolingian Empire affects history", but by making the whole historiographical point irrelevant (As a moot point of comparison, it's like asking what happen during WW2 is WW1 is butterflied).
 
Spanish surnames

This is slightly off topic. but several Spanish surnames end in -ibal, Olazabal for example. Is this derived from names like Hannibal, Hasdrubal etc? how is the Carthaginain presence viewed in Spain?
 
Antiquity POD
Middle-Ages is set after Antiquity, and an early PoD of such would butterfly away the period.


Thing is, Middle Ages are a period definied by historical events : fall of WRE, fall of ERE, roughly speaking.

Butterflying Rome is making the period hardly recognizable, and not as "How absence of Carolingian Empire affects history", but by making the whole historiographical point irrelevant (As a moot point of comparison, it's like asking what happen during WW2 is WW1 is butterflied).

alright what I meant is Carthage's name endures +/- 2000 years of prestige (as per Roman, last thing using the name Roman is Holy Roman Empire, disbanded in 19th century)
 
alright what I meant is Carthage's name endures +/- 2000 years of prestige (as per Roman, last thing using the name Roman is Holy Roman Empire, disbanded in 19th century)

I'm sorry, did something happen this morning to suddenly wipe out the Roman catholic church and the Capital of Italy?
 
UH, POD can start in 316 BC, Christianity, or indeed, Jesus himself is not yet born...

316 BC, after the end of third sicilian war!

Well, I was referring to the frankly ludicrous statement that the last thing to use Rome as a prestige title was the HRE, but as I said upthread, you really don't need to go back that far at all to have the city of Carthage survive.

But really, looking at the OP you've horrendously misworded the thread. What you're wanting is not for Carthage to survive, but to actively replace Rome in the popular imagination. Sorry, but from what I've gathered from discussions about that the way in which the Carthaginian 'Empire' was structured is fundamentally opposed to that sort of thing. You can probably get a longer lasting Carthage, but you're not going to have Carthage as the Caput Mundi
 
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