AHC: Save Star Wars

Easy way to improve on the Prequel films:

Have Lucas realize sometime in the early to mid 1990s that while he is definitely very creative when it comes to "world building", his talents in actually being a director are more limited. Then add in the fact that the last time he's ever directed anything was in 1977.

As ESB and ROTJ were huge successes with him being the producer and someone else (Irwin Kershner and Richard Marquand) being the director, have him decide that the same thing can be applied in the upcoming prequel trilogy. Irwin Kershner for one is still very much alive and available at this time, and there are other directors out there who would give their right arm to be able to direct the highly anticipated Episode I...
 
I say you should have brought out the prequels much sooner and turned the franchise over to some other producer.

The issue is that the first episode started out with a relatively weak story line and relied on special effects never before seen in the theaters to gain fame. In fact, didn't Lucas wait until after the first film before he decided that Darth Vader was Luke Skywalker's father? When the first film came out, he said he was planning on "12 episodes" to satisfy reporters, with no final sense of direction as to where the story would go.

By the end of the first trilogy, the bluescreen effects became commonplace and computer graphics were coming along, so a story constrained by a 1977 production would become older, older and harder to recover into something interesting as the years went on.
 
When i saw Star Wars 1 i was anoyed with all the CGI instead of the models that had been used in ANH, ESB and ROTJ, i still went to the next movie and when i had seen SW2 i also went to SW3 just to see how Darth Vader came to be.

Sure the love scenes could have been better, but honestly, are love scenes in Sci fi done well at any time?

Many who was angered with Jar-Jar and ep 1 STILL went to ep 2 and those who were still angered STILL WENT to the last movie.

If Lucas had used more models and less CGI he would have been praised. Look at the speeders in ROTJ, no CGI at all and that special effect scene still stand the test of time.

The droid battle in ep 1 and clone battle later look cartoonish today.
 
Anyway, yes, the prequel trilogy could have been much better, could have been better, in fact, than the original trilogy, had their many weaknesses been solved. But i don't see the solution Hades proposed, with Ridley Scott... Star Wars is a product for kids and teenagers, something bright and with hope. I don't think that director could have done it satisfactorily without making the movies much more mature. Although maybe that could have resonated with the original fans, who would be almost adults by then and would like a more mature cinematographic experience.

The problem is, as you said, the star wars fanbase that grew up with the OT in 1977-85 would be adults by 99. Though my idea of starting with '89 would be SW gradually maturing (helped by having Ridley Scott instead of Kirschner for ESB, and SW becomes more Ridley and George enterprise than Lucas inc.). As well as that, the PT will have to look at the old Republic and why it gave way to the Empire, so it will have to mature (hence my idea of the Star Wars PT having influences of I Claudius and Heart of Darkness rather than pulp fiction)

Besides, my idea of Palpatine mounting a military coup works better than what we got OTL with the Jedi being collectively lobotomised.
 
That's easy. Lucas had an almost-fatal car crash in 1989 about three months after finishing the Last Crusade. Car crash kills Lucas ITTL and both Star Wars and Indiana Jones are saved.
 
That's easy. Lucas had an almost-fatal car crash in 1989 about three months after finishing the Last Crusade. Car crash kills Lucas ITTL and both Star Wars and Indiana Jones are saved.

I think too little George Lucas (as in none) might be as bad or worse than too much. I'm a bit cautiously pessimistic (if that's a legitimate phrase) about the J.J. Abrams trilogy for that reason.
 
If Lucas is killed the rights revert to his children who may end up selling it to Disney or another entity to do what they want with Star Wars. They would want the next owner to do what they want with the movies, but couldn't stop them from making the films worse either. Even if the new owner wanted to make more films they may or may not produce an origin story of the Empire and Darth Vader.

It could be nothing other than lightsaber battles and battles like 300. Killing Lucas doesn't mean Star Wars gets any better.
 
Besides, my idea of Palpatine mounting a military coup works better than what we got OTL with the Jedi being collectively lobotomised.

This had to be my biggest problem with the prequels. The only way Palpy was able to seize power in the first place is because the Jedi Council had the political instincts the Gods gave to sloths. If any of them had been even halfway on the ball they would have figured it all out.
 
This had to be my biggest problem with the prequels. The only way Palpy was able to seize power in the first place is because the Jedi Council had the political instincts the Gods gave to sloths. If any of them had been even halfway on the ball they would have figured it all out.

General Palpatine could even be supported by the Jedi, because they wanted to expedite the war as quickly as possible. My idea would be that the Sith are more opportunists that exploit the current situation to their advantage instead of omnipotent and omniscient gods who could lobotomise anybody they come across within 5000 light years.
 
On the topic of "It's for kids" or "The audience saw it when they were kids, so how will it appeal to them/it would have to be more mature": what Star Wars was and has always been is the matinee serials of George Lucas' youth, filtered through an adult lense. It has adventure and features which appeal to kids the same as those serials appealed to George Lucas, but it also has a maturity, being the adult and cinema quality version of those serials, thus appealing to adults and making those elements that appeal to kids also appeal to adults. So the series is universal. Just because no one says the word 'fuck' and you don't see overt blood does not make it the same level of a Disney cartoon.

You don't need to therefore make some more mature version of the saga in the prequels, nor wonder how it will appeal to the audience that grew up with the original trilogy. It would, if it were of the same maturity or lack thereof of the original, appeal to that audience, as well as their kids.
 
On the topic of "It's for kids" or "The audience saw it when they were kids, so how will it appeal to them/it would have to be more mature": what Star Wars was and has always been is the matinee serials of George Lucas' youth, filtered through an adult lense. It has adventure and features which appeal to kids the same as those serials appealed to George Lucas, but it also has a maturity, being the adult and cinema quality version of those serials, thus appealing to adults and making those elements that appeal to kids also appeal to adults. So the series is universal. Just because no one says the word 'fuck' and you don't see overt blood does not make it the same level of a Disney cartoon.

You don't need to therefore make some more mature version of the saga in the prequels, nor wonder how it will appeal to the audience that grew up with the original trilogy. It would, if it were of the same maturity or lack thereof of the original, appeal to that audience, as well as their kids.

I was thinking more of the PT gradually becoming more like Alien/Heart of Darkness/Blade Runner if Ridley Scott were involved with the production (dicks aplenty if Giger did the art of sith temples. :eek:). Besides, I never understood how a princess couldn't understand the concept of calling Han a bastard.

That said, we are looking at how a seemingly utopian Republic became the fascistic Empire, there really isn't much you can do to make it appeal to children. You will have to look at WHY it happened (and frankly, the PT's version of events has been found wanting.). It was like Megadeth making Risk as the followup to Rust in Peace.
 
I was thinking more of the PT gradually becoming more like Alien/Heart of Darkness/Blade Runner if Ridley Scott were involved with the production (dicks aplenty if Giger did the art of sith temples. :eek:). Besides, I never understood how a princess couldn't understand the concept of calling Han a bastard.

That said, we are looking at how a seemingly utopian Republic became the fascistic Empire, there really isn't much you can do to make it appeal to children. You will have to look at WHY it happened (and frankly, the PT's version of events has been found wanting.). It was like Megadeth making Risk as the followup to Rust in Peace.

Here's the problem: you're looking at a way to make it appeal to children. What should be done is to make a mass appeal product that just is what it is and will happen to appeal to kids, along with adults. Han Solo was tortured in the original trilogy. Luke Skywalker had his hand visibly cut off. That isn't exactly Barney the dinosaur.

This may be one of the problems with the prequels as it was. They may have asked this exact question you asked, getting too lost in modern demographic appeal and marketing PR, and ignoring the fact that the original Star Wars films just were what they were, and happened to appeal to kids as part of their overall appeal.

By the way, before the prequels, the Star Wars RPG explained what happened which lead to the Empire from the Republic. I can't recall it in detail, but it is worth finding, and I recall it to be better than the explanation that was given in the prequels.
 
The main reason why the OT was so good based one what I've read is that it wasn't lucas, but the result of several people who made it what it was.

Lucas did provide several ideas and such as well as a script, but at several times, other people over ruled him on how several characters and ideas turned out as well as providing better dialogue. whats more there were several times in which the general design of the setting and story were also done by other people. Even Lucas has admitted to this I think. Such as deferring to either Spielberg or Coppola for improvements on the writing, especially the dialogue.

the so called problem of the prequels is that he doesn't have all this help and assistance. and the quality suffers for it. Especially the writing, people say Christiansen was a bad actor but I think it's more to do with Lucas being terrible at dialogue and even he's said as such about himself.

Anyway, if you can find a way to limit Lucas's overall authority or at the very least have him co-operate with other people more so and idk maybe seek improvements on his overall writing however you do it then I think the prequels will be much better.

Anyway that's my two cents.

Also I thought ROTS was nice.
 
Here's the problem: you're looking at a way to make it appeal to children. What should be done is to make a mass appeal product that just is what it is and will happen to appeal to kids, along with adults. Han Solo was tortured in the original trilogy. Luke Skywalker had his hand visibly cut off. That isn't exactly Barney the dinosaur.

This may be one of the problems with the prequels as it was. They may have asked this exact question you asked, getting too lost in modern demographic appeal and marketing PR, and ignoring the fact that the original Star Wars films just were what they were, and happened to appeal to kids as part of their overall appeal.

By the way, before the prequels, the Star Wars RPG explained what happened which lead to the Empire from the Republic. I can't recall it in detail, but it is worth finding, and I recall it to be better than the explanation that was given in the prequels.

No, I was explaining why the star Wars PT would have to be more mature and complex than the OT in order for it to be any good. I mean, compare Peace Sells by Megadeth (Simple, accessible album that was a success) to Rust in Peace (masterpiece in thrash metal that is considered one of the best albums of all time. of all time! :p)
 
No, I was explaining why the star Wars PT would have to be more mature and complex than the OT in order for it to be any good. I mean, compare Peace Sells by Megadeth (Simple, accessible album that was a success) to Rust in Peace (masterpiece in thrash metal that is considered one of the best albums of all time. of all time! :p)

No more so than the original trilogy would do in it's place, if that makes any sense.
 
A quick idea for the prequel discussion:

Is anyone here overtly familiar with older scifi and adventure serials and Westerns? That is the creative well from whence Lucas would draw, and that is the creative well from whence the prequels would draw analogies. Knowing those films and serials allows for knowing the possibilities of what a properly done prequel trilogy would be like.
 
One of the biggest things that bugs me about the prequels, in retrospect, is that it's about the fall of the Republic at all. From watching the Original Trilogy, you get the impression that the Empire has been around for a very long time. Long enough that nobody living can remember a time before the Empire. Then, in the Prequels, it turns out that Luke Skywalker was born in the Republic. How crazy is that?
 
One of the biggest things that bugs me about the prequels, in retrospect, is that it's about the fall of the Republic at all. From watching the Original Trilogy, you get the impression that the Empire has been around for a very long time. Long enough that nobody living can remember a time before the Empire. Then, in the Prequels, it turns out that Luke Skywalker was born in the Republic. How crazy is that?

The way I would have done it: have Episode I be about introducing the Clone Wars, and via Anakin, introduce us to everything going on. Anakin should the everyman character who just like us knows nothing, so he has to be told, meaning the audience gets told and the exposition is not so much exposition. Have Episode I also be about the end of the Clone Wars, thanks to Anakin, Obi-Wan and whatever band of allies they may bring along with them. In Episode II and III, jump time ahead to give longevity between the time of the Clone Wars and the time of Episode IV. Anakin and Obi-Wan should be older men, who you can tell are close friends and have been on numerous adventures together since the last Episode, and have a brotherly relationship. This should be time spent explaining the increasing corruption of the Republic and the rise of insidious forces in them, and the Republic itself becoming bad because of it's corruption and infighting and chaos. I would have had Episode II be about the fall of the Republic and the rise of the Empire, Anakin's fall from grace assuming he is doing what is right and necessary to protect the ones he loves, and possibly Anakin becoming Vader (in non-cyborg form) or otherwise the right hand of the Emperor. In that form, of the right hand man of the Emperor, Anakin should not assume the Empire is evil or that he is evil: no villain believes themselves to be evil. The Empire at that time should not be apparent as totally wicked. It should be like Nazi Germany in the aftermath of the Weimer Republic: selling out from the belief of doing what was necessary, and trading freedom for security. No knowledge of the genocide and evil, though existing in the culture and accepting the culture that allows it to go on in reality. And Episode III would be some years past that, the increasing culmination of the authority of the Empire and increased malevolence of the Empire, Anakin growing more wicked with it, Anakin pushing away those who love him and whom he is trying to protect in the quest to protect them, and Anakin growing increasingly evil (in fact) by going along with what's happening, making excuses for it, and growing angry and bitter and cruel as everything goes to hell. I would also have Vader birth his children in this time (he should have them at middle age than just like 19 or whatever it was), knowing they're his, but assuming they've died for whatever reason; that could in fact be what pushes him even further into evil. That all culminates in Vader fighting his old master and comrade, with the hellish environment around him representative of his inner torment and evil and chaos, finally being defeated in battle, in a mirror of Obi-Wan's defeat in Episode IV, and being burned and maimed, becoming ugly on the outside as he is on the inside, being taken and turned into a cyborg by the Emperor, and his outside robotic form representative of his coldness and lack of humanity. And then set up in that Episode the rise of the Rebellion and the beginning of the Civil War. Fill in any blanks from there.

And again, I very much feel that George Lucas' rise and fall from grace and what he is and the way he has been in relation to himself and everything is, in meta form, a muuuch better prequel than what was made. Take George Lucas' life, replace the names with Star Wars characters, and shoot it and you have a much better prequel. Lucas went into Star Wars innocently enough, had married, and was planning all this great things. And the success of Star Wars led him to be beloved. But that took a toll on his marriage, making him more distant and too caught in his work, and his relationship crumbled, all the while with him assuming he was getting security for his family and that he'd settle down eventually. And those films too their toll on his health and his marriage. And that marriage ended, and George Lucas took an emotional hit for it. All the while being beloved. And then he comes back, and does what he thinks is right with the Special Editions and the prequels. And it upsets people with his behavior and attitude, but Lucas thinks he's doing right, and wags an accusing finger back at his critics, which further alienates the fan base, and he refuses to do so many things and sets his foot down in stubborness, further upsetting his fanbase. And he goes from this beloved figure we assume is perfect to something quite different. And Lucasfilm and the Star Wars franchise is representative of the Empire, being Lucas' devotion for all that security and success, which he gets too caught up in, thus obliterating what he wanted it for, and it becomes increasingly bureaucratic and cold. And it becomes about merchandising, and begins to lose it's soul in that.

Insert Boba Fett into that story, and you have a kickass Episode I-III. You could put down why the prequels weren't that great to the fact that Lucas emotionally would not go too close to that, or at least not in a fashion of maturity and well rounded perspective, and that's the kind of story the prequels always had to be.
 
I'd have had Anakin become vader more gradually (lose an arm in one battle, get organ damage at another etc.) rather than just become vader at the drop of a hat. As well as that, he gradually becomes more disillusioned by the jedi due to the horrors of the Clone Wars and their support for a corrupt republic (like Count Dooku)
 
One of the biggest things that bugs me about the prequels, in retrospect, is that it's about the fall of the Republic at all. From watching the Original Trilogy, you get the impression that the Empire has been around for a very long time. Long enough that nobody living can remember a time before the Empire. Then, in the Prequels, it turns out that Luke Skywalker was born in the Republic. How crazy is that?

I don't think they really messed up the chronology too much/at all, remember that major plot points from ANH were that Luke's father was a Jedi knight (dating the end of the Republic to around the time of his birth), and that Palpatine is dissolving the Senate.
 
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