AHC: Russo-American Alliance

kernals12

Banned
It's odd that Russia tended to ally itself with the world's democracies (France, Britain, the United States) despite being the most authoritarian of the European powers.
 

Md139115

Banned
It is simply impossible.

America’s long-term strategic interests are to prevent one nation from dominating Eurasia or Africa (since such a nation would have sufficient access to the resources needed to overwhelm the US and invade North America) and keep the sea lanes open for its international trade.

Russia’s long term strategic interests are to be hegemon of Eurasia (so it can stop being invaded!) and get reliable access to the world’s oceans, which means either controlling the Danish straits, the Bosporus, or the waters around Japan and Korea, all of which are HUGE international sea lanes.

Never in modern times have two nations have possessed such diametrically opposite goals. The closest parallel I can think of is the British hysteria about one power dominating the European continent, and that concern was really obsolete by time Napoleon did so, just because of the consolidation over Canada, the Caribbean, and India in the decades prior.
 

kernals12

Banned
It is simply impossible.

America’s long-term strategic interests are to prevent one nation from dominating Eurasia or Africa (since such a nation would have sufficient access to the resources needed to overwhelm the US and invade North America) and keep the sea lanes open for its international trade.

Russia’s long term strategic interests are to be hegemon of Eurasia (so it can stop being invaded!) and get reliable access to the world’s oceans, which means either controlling the Danish straits, the Bosporus, or the waters around Japan and Korea, all of which are HUGE international sea lanes.

Never in modern times have two nations have possessed such diametrically opposite goals.
The closest parallel I can think of is the British hysteria about one power dominating the European continent, and that concern was really obsolete by time Napoleon did so, just because of the consolidation over Canada, the Caribbean, and India in the decades prior.
If Russia became a democracy, I think America's geopolitical goals would be different.
 
It is simply impossible.

America’s long-term strategic interests are to prevent one nation from dominating Eurasia or Africa (since such a nation would have sufficient access to the resources needed to overwhelm the US and invade North America) and keep the sea lanes open for its international trade.

Russia’s long term strategic interests are to be hegemon of Eurasia (so it can stop being invaded!) and get reliable access to the world’s oceans, which means either controlling the Danish straits, the Bosporus, or the waters around Japan and Korea, all of which are HUGE international sea lanes.

Never in modern times have two nations have possessed such diametrically opposite goals. The closest parallel I can think of is the British hysteria about one power dominating the European continent, and that concern was really obsolete by time Napoleon did so, just because of the consolidation over Canada, the Caribbean, and India in the decades prior.

That was the UK's strategic interest. The US only inherited that role post 1945.
 
It's odd that Russia tended to ally itself with the world's democracies (France, Britain, the United States) despite being the most authoritarian of the European powers.

They only allied with France and that was only in response to a unified Germany. Note, they fought the British and French during the Crimean War.
 
I think relations were good between the U.S. and the Russian Empire in the 1860's; one of the reasons why the Alaska Purchase was relatively easy to do. The Russians would much rather a nation they were friendly with control Alaska over their British rivals.
 

destiple

Banned
It is simply impossible.

America’s long-term strategic interests are to prevent one nation from dominating Eurasia or Africa (since such a nation would have sufficient access to the resources needed to overwhelm the US and invade North America) and keep the sea lanes open for its international trade.

Russia’s long term strategic interests are to be hegemon of Eurasia (so it can stop being invaded!) and get reliable access to the world’s oceans, which means either controlling the Danish straits, the Bosporus, or the waters around Japan and Korea, all of which are HUGE international sea lanes.

Never in modern times have two nations have possessed such diametrically opposite goals. The closest parallel I can think of is the British hysteria about one power dominating the European continent, and that concern was really obsolete by time Napoleon did so, just because of the consolidation over Canada, the Caribbean, and India in the decades prior.

but China has taken that role now
whole of russian siberia is wide open to a chinese invasion
russia is better off to ally with europe/USA to counter china and japan
 
it reflects Bismarcks bias which was not isolated to him , lot of europeans at that time thought that way
And what on Earth does 19th century European attitudes towards Russia have do with the Russians today somehow magically deciding to bury the hatchet and ally with Europe, where all but one invaders of Russia came from?

but China has taken that role now
whole of russian siberia is wide open to a chinese invasion
russia is better off to ally with europe/USA to counter china and japan

That old Siberian invasion canard again? The only meaningful Chinese interest in Siberia is buying things from Russia (LDPR/Pat Buchanan hysteria about the yellow peril is not an acceptable source).
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
but China has taken that role now
whole of russian siberia is wide open to a chinese invasion
russia is better off to ally with europe/USA to counter china and japan
In the future once Putin is dead and relationships between EU and USA have decayed even further I can easily imagine a USA+Russia+Japan+ASEAN alliance against China+EU.
 
It is simply impossible.

America’s long-term strategic interests are to prevent one nation from dominating Eurasia or Africa (since such a nation would have sufficient access to the resources needed to overwhelm the US and invade North America) and keep the sea lanes open for its international trade.

Russia’s long term strategic interests are to be hegemon of Eurasia (so it can stop being invaded!) and get reliable access to the world’s oceans, which means either controlling the Danish straits, the Bosporus, or the waters around Japan and Korea, all of which are HUGE international sea lanes.

Never in modern times have two nations have possessed such diametrically opposite goals. The closest parallel I can think of is the British hysteria about one power dominating the European continent, and that concern was really obsolete by time Napoleon did so, just because of the consolidation over Canada, the Caribbean, and India in the decades prior.
That's after WW2, before that you can tie the fortunes of Russia and the USA together over the corpse of the British Empire, a few more wars of the British in the 19th and early 20th century against the two and they realize they're natural allies with no claims and grievances against the other but plenty with the British.
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
Donor
Monthly Donor
In history and the present day, the US and Russia are fierce rivals. Yet, under the Tsars, the US counted Russia an ally, and again against the Nazi menace, the Americans and Russians fought together. Your challenge is to create a stable and long-term Russian-American alliance, along the kind of terms as OTL's Special Relationship with the UK or American alliance with France.

I've commented on the irony of their enduring antagonism before:

https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...-deadliest-enemy-to-whom.295859/#post-8363224

This list of great powers excludes newer powers and neighbors (like India), and focuses on these 8 nations-
US
UK
France
Italy
Germany
Russia
China
Japan

Looking at US history of conflict first

US-UK (ARW, 1812)
US-France (Quasi-War)
US-Italy (WWII, 1941-1943)
US-Germany (WWII, 1941-1945, WWI, 1917-1918)
US-Russia (Siberian Intervention in RCW, 1918-19, air- to air defense encounters in Korea & Vietnam)
US-China (Korean War, Boxer Expedition)
US-Japan (WWII,, 1941-1945)

In the order of US casualties lost at the hands of an opponent, from most deadly to least deadly, I think US opponents rank like this:

1) Germany
2) Japan
3) UK
4) Italy
5) China
6) France
7) Russia

Then looking at Russian history of conflict

Russia (&USSR) - US (Siberian Intervention in RCW, 1918-19, air- to air defense encounters in Korea & Vietnam)
Russia-UK (Crimean War, RCW)
Russia-France (Napoleonic wars, Crimean War, RCW, Vichy volunteers for Axis in WWII)
Russia-Italy (Crimean War, Spanish Civil War, WWII)
Russia-Germany (WWII, Spanish Civil War, WWI, German auxiliaries to Napoleon)
Russia-China (Border clashes of 1969, Xinjiang intervention 1934, border war of 1929, Boxer Expedition, Ili Crisis)
Russia-Japan (WWII, 1945,Nomonhan, 1939, RCW 1918-22, Russo-Japanese War, 1904-1905)

In order of Russian (or Soviet) casualties lost at the hands of an opponent, from most deadly to least deadly, I think Russia’s opponents rank like this:

1) Germany
2) France
3) Italy
4) UK
5) Japan
6) China
7) US

This spurs the ironic observation that current-day relations between the US and Russia are worse than their respective relations with 6 other countries that killed more of their people. This is particularly remarkable on the US side, which is currently in alliance with its 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th place deadliest historic foes.

Looking at this from a Chinese perspective, it’s current foreign policy tensions with the other listed great powers actually tracks fairly closely with their historic ranking of deadliness

1) Japan (2nd Sino-Japanese War 1931-1945, Shandong occupation 1928-1929, 1st (modern) sino-Japanese war 1894-95, Imjin War, 1590s, Wako pirate raids, earlier)
2) US (Korean War)
3) UK (Boxer Expedition, Arrow War & Opium War)
4) France (Indochina War, 1949-1954, Boxer Expedition, Sino-French War, 1884-1885, Arrow War)
5) Russia (Border clashes of 1969, Xinjiang intervention 1934, border war of 1929, Boxer Expedition, Ili Crisis)
6) Germany (Boxer expedition)
7) Italy – nothing.

Contemporary China’s relations are indeed worse with its historic deadliest foes among the great power list, Japan and the US, than with the other 5 powers in the batch. Interestingly, despite sharing a large land border, contending for influence over border regions, territorial transfers and ideological rivalries, the Russians and Chinese do not have a history of slaughtering each other frequently and in great numbers as one finds between neighboring peoples in Europe and the Middle East.
 
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