Ok, ok, rich kid, you made your point.
You comforted me. Thank you. I feel better now.
Hey - purely accidentally, I assure you!
Bruce
Ok, ok, rich kid, you made your point.
You comforted me. Thank you. I feel better now.
wank Russia as far as plausibly possible.
Getting back on track, if the Manchu Empire was stillborn, might Russia have got ahold of a decent Pacific port rather earlier than OTL? And if we keep Hungary independent, how hard would it be to get a Russian Wallachia-Moldova?
Bruce
When did Chamberlain and Daladier ally with Hitler? Munich doesn't really compare with the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact.
The competence of Russia's leaders has never really been a particularly important detail: they usually win their conflicts by throwing ten times as many people at them as their opponents do, which requires very little competence on the part of their leaders. <- sarcasm
I can think of about five instances in Europe. Of these, four were perpetrated, in part, by the fifth. For that reason, while I sympathize with the four, I have no sympathy for the fifth.
That would actually involve nipping the Qing Dynasty in the bud and restoring the Ming.
As far as I am concerned, the Pacific port Russia would likely get would be in OTL Port Arthur.
.Russian Wallachia-Moldova could have given the Russians an additional access to the Balkans and menace the Ottoman Empire at the same time
On the other hand, having a Russian port earlier than Peter the Great's era would actually help with creating an early Russian maritime trade.
I Blame Communism said:Sven said:The competence of Russia's leaders has never really been a particularly important detail: they usually win their conflicts by throwing ten times as many people at them as their opponents do, which requires very little competence on the part of their leaders. <- sarcasm
Sarcasm's not very funny when founded on outright lies. Can we name one example of this supposed trend? There have been wars where the Russians could rely only on numbers; they lost 'em. They couldn't even conquer the Circassians relying on numbers. Relying on numbers seldom works for anyone.
I Blame Communism said:Sven said:I can think of about five instances in Europe. Of these, four were perpetrated, in part, by the fifth. For that reason, while I sympathize with the four, I have no sympathy for the fifth.
This is a ghastly anti-human way of thinking founded on collective guilt. Terry Pratchett put it best: "Remember the attrocity committed before we were born which excuses the second attrocity we are going to commit now!". I don't know what absurd knots of bigotry one must navigate to conclude that the Soviet peoples, the victims of the Soviet regime, deserve 'no sympathy' (what a horrible thing to say) for what was done to them.
Reported.
I respect your being honest and outspoken.Russia have played the role of bully and villain in innumerable international affairs and conflicts since the time of Peter the Great. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth...
(1) their own ineptitude; (2) lack of caring for individuals under their regime.
That's much better. Lightly and with good humorWork on that sarcasm, perhaps it will be your key to literary success!
The Great Northern War comes to mind first. Russia's army was massively outclassed by Sweden's, but Russia could bring 40,000 to every battle, while Sweden could only bring 20,000 total, plus allies. Eventually, dumb luck would've won it for Russia.
Same with the Napoleonic War and World War II: Russia's army was always outclassed man-for-man, but they always had more reserves, so they always outlasted their opponents.
Russia has historically suffered higher casualty rates than their
opponents in a large proportion of the wars in which they've been involved. I can think of two explanations for this: (1) their own ineptitude; (2) lack of caring for individuals under their regime.
"Being dealt a bad hand of cards" means that any other country put in similar circumstances would have come out with all the same troubles. Do you really think this is the case? I don't. Russia had a lot of failures and shortcomings, but I don't think it's because it had a particularly bad hand dealt to it.
Are you a sports fan? I am. There are teams in every sport I watch that I absolutely loathe. But, I don't go around wishing horrible injuries on their star players just because I want to see the team lose. Granted, I feel no sympathy for the Steelers when Troy Polamalu gets injured, but I feel sympathy for Polamalu, who's a great player and, as I'm told, a terrific human being, and didn't do anything to deserve a sprained ankle or a concussion or a fractured rib.
I certainly don't feel that Russian people deserved to be horribly murdered by Nazis just because they were Russians. I certainly don't feel that people of Russian ethnicity are deserving of suffering by dint of their birth, and I don't feel that what happened to Russians under the Soviet regime was preferable to what happened to Estonians, Latvians, Poles and Lithuanians.
It's possible to partition, because an organization is not the same thing as the individuals that comprise it. I know a few Russians (not many), the majority of whom I find to be rather pleasant, likeable people. But, while reading about history, I can't help but notice that repeated incarnations of the country of Russia have played the role of bully and villain in innumerable international affairs and conflicts since the time of Peter the Great. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and leads me to view Russia the same way I view the Pittsburgh Steelers.
Apples don't really compare with oranges, but they had repeatedly turned down the Soviet attempts to act on a basis of collective security, so we too 'reaped what we sowed'. And of course your statement was highly misleading in some respects (how exactly did the Baltic states, for example, 'protect' the USSR? And what wide definition of 'Allies' are we using?), so by chucking about provocative and dubious statements, you, hohoho, reaped what you sowed.
Reported.
I'm sorry - what "provocative and dubious statements"? I only pointed out that World War 2 happened because Russia allowed it to happen by signing the before mentioned alliance.
You can't seperate the years 1939-1941 and 1941-1945 by claiming "Well, what the russians did was bad, but they didn't want Barbarossa so they are victims." They cooperated with the germans to start the war which eventually reached them as well - it was quite obvious to any observer that without Poland/Lithuania seperating the two powers (thats how they protected it - by denying one access to the other), war between them would occur - or at least highly propable. So the russians gambled, they didn't get the expected outcome, but they got a propable one. You don't really consider someone who loses in a casino a "victim". And you certainly don't consider a country which didn't seek a war or alliances with aggressive states which got one a victim of "reaping what they sow". There is a difference between "predictable outcome" and "unforseen consequences".
Meh. It's as poor as Mexico per capita, not very democratic, and has less than 1/2 the population of the US and falling further behind in numbers all the time. It's doing snazzy by the standards of, say, Pakistan, but not so much by those of western Europe or the Anglosphere, or east Asia for that matter. It easily could be doing better.
I'll note Russia seems well on its way to becoming Number One Superpower by century's end in Jareds "Decades of Darkness..."
Bruce
The way I've created the foundations for a more "happy" and succesful Russia in my longer TL is that I bypassed the process of Russia uniting into a single tsardom with a semi-religious manifest destiny, as happened in OTL. I've also strenghtened the importance of some of the Russian stateletes outside of Moscow. OTL has been a Moscow-wank from the 15th century onward. I wanted to prove that not only Muscovite princes can be beneficial to Russia. Furthermore, Russia doesn't need to be uber-big to be rich, prosperous and well-developed.
I just had a bunch of dirty thoughts pop into my head right about now.![]()
Russian population started growing in 2009
Not my point. I had heard it was showing some feeble [1] signs of non-immigration-based growth, but the US is growing a lot faster, and is likely to remain faster-growing for quite some time to come barring some awful catastrophe, such as Newt Gingrich becoming president for three terms.
Bruce
[1] And possibly temporary: wait until the shrunken female cohort of the 90s demographic bottom point reach child-rearing age
I believe your point was that Russia was going towards a social collapse that it cannot recover from. I pointed out that is not happening as Russia has recovered a lot from that collapse.
Where did I say Russia was going towards an irreversible social collapse? I said screwed up, not Dooooomed.![]()
Bruce
So slow population growth is "Screwed"
(yes, I know other factors but those are being fixed too)_