Maybe Russia really is awesome. Maybe I've just been listening to too many Orthodox choirs. But I've been thinking that Russia is an amazing country and culture and got handed a really, really bad hand of cards. So, my challenge is; wank Russia as far as plausibly possible. This wank must contain--Alaska at some point, the 'stans, Ukraine, eastern Poland, Belarus, the Baltic countries, Finland, Moldova, Georgia, Azerbajian, Armenia, AT LEAST northern Persia and a puppet state in southern Persia, preferably all of Persia, and access to a port on the Mediterranean. You get extra points for making that port Constantinople, and putting it officially into Russian hands.
AHC: Russian Uberwank
- Thread starter TheLordProtector
- Start date
MarshalBraginsky
Banned
I specialize in Russia-centric TLs. Ivangorod Prosperous would be the TL you may be looking for.
Meh. It's as poor as Mexico per capita, not very democratic, and has less than 1/2 the population of the US and falling further behind in numbers all the time. It's doing snazzy by the standards of, say, Pakistan, but not so much by those of western Europe or the Anglosphere, or east Asia for that matter. It easily could be doing better.
I'll note Russia seems well on its way to becoming Number One Superpower by century's end in Jareds "Decades of Darkness..."
Bruce
I'll note Russia seems well on its way to becoming Number One Superpower by century's end in Jareds "Decades of Darkness..."
Bruce
What do you mean by a "bad hand of cards"? This implies that they were simply victims of bad circumstances, which I don't think is true. Russia seems to be situated on a pretty good piece of land, with good resources and good protection from outside invaders, not to mention the very big size of it. The only major downfall was the lack of trade connections to the outside world: but, they had these connections before, and lost them due largely to their own internal social problems.
Most of the historical struggles and setbacks Russia has experienced don't seem to have just been bad luck: the Russian people themselves (or, at least, their rulers) usually played a very active role in creating the various bad circumstances they endured. I don't think it's accurate to consider this "being dealt a bad hand of cards."
I Blame Communism
Banned
To think in territorial terms is probably not the right way: Russia got control of half Europe, after all, and a fat lot of good that did. A Russian state that has been at all fortunate would all but certainly include Ukraine and other parts of the ex-USSR; but the attempt to be wolrd number 2 and have a global reach ended up with a smaller Russia than before.
They'd probably have had a better 19th century without Poland, even. Diplomatic relations with the western countries would be uncomplicated by PR disasters, and with the middle powers by Bismarck and Metternich's manipulation of Polish menaces; and pan-Slavism might have been a more serious diplomatic weapon if it's exponents hadn't had to keep sending the army to put down Slavic Nation #2.
I mean, who hasn't had a tenth of their people killed by invading forces in modern times?
Um...
It is, however, true that everybody has a hand in their own misfortunes.
They'd probably have had a better 19th century without Poland, even. Diplomatic relations with the western countries would be uncomplicated by PR disasters, and with the middle powers by Bismarck and Metternich's manipulation of Polish menaces; and pan-Slavism might have been a more serious diplomatic weapon if it's exponents hadn't had to keep sending the army to put down Slavic Nation #2.
I mean, who hasn't had a tenth of their people killed by invading forces in modern times?
Um...
It is, however, true that everybody has a hand in their own misfortunes.
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The way I've created the foundations for a more "happy" and succesful Russia in my longer TL is that I bypassed the process of Russia uniting into a single tsardom with a semi-religious manifest destiny, as happened in OTL. I've also strenghtened the importance of some of the Russian stateletes outside of Moscow. OTL has been a Moscow-wank from the 15th century onward. I wanted to prove that not only Muscovite princes can be beneficial to Russia. Furthermore, Russia doesn't need to be uber-big to be rich, prosperous and well-developed.
I Blame Communism
Banned
But I think we can reasonable say that scenarious in which there is no Russian state are outside the bounds of the scenario.
And will peopel stop using 'wank' to mean 'they continued to exist and expanded sometimes'? It's overused to the point of meaninglessless.
And will peopel stop using 'wank' to mean 'they continued to exist and expanded sometimes'? It's overused to the point of meaninglessless.
But I think we can reasonable say that scenarious in which there is no Russian state are outside the bounds of the scenario.
And will peopel stop using 'wank' to mean 'they continued to exist and expanded sometimes'? It's overused to the point of meaninglessless.
In my opinion, it's not a proper national wank unless you at least double your size and/or population from OTL maximum....
[1]Bruce
[1] Which is to say, the challenge hardly even makes it to basic wank, let alone Uberwank. Now, Russian Korea, Japan, north America, and India: NOW we're getting into serious wanking.
[2][2] Of course, economic wanking works too: give Russia all its 1914 territories and Switzerland's GNP/Capita, that's a fair wank...
It was not what you may call the worst ever hand of cards. Actually there was only one bad card - the Mongolian invasion.
Before that it was a nice healthy mix of the Slavs with the Finno-Ugorians, ruled by warrior elite of the Scandinavian origin. Co-existing with the Turkish steppe. And all this was illuminated by ancient Byzantine spirituality.
As for me I was always fascinated by Ireland.
IMO it was the Irish who got handed a really, really bad hand of cards.
I like their music, I adore their culture, even their nature seems so beautiful.
My mother's country is Byelorussia which landscape looks like Irish one a bit. And both countries severely suffered from their neighbors.
So, Hitler was the Russian's fault?
Bruce
Sorry, I didn't get the point.
What's the joke?
Sorry, I didn't get the point.
What's the joke?
You said the Mongols were the only bad card the Russians were dealt, which seems to indicate you don't think the Nazis were a "bad card." Clear?
Bruce
Yep.
Now it is clear.
No, IMO the Nazis were not a "bad card."
I mean Russia miraculously recovered after this blow in no time.
I Blame Communism
Banned
In my opinion, it's not a proper national wank unless you at least double your size and/or population from OTL maximum....
That sounds right to be, and has the merit of scaling.
I mean, for China to have an extensive sphere of influence in Asia, or Germany in Europe, or America in the Americas, or for Russia to, uh, be the size it was for most of modern history is not outlandish because we know well that they were physically capable of having that much power and control. But for some middle-sized country to make the same achievements could be fairly called a wank.
Therein, I think, lies some of the cause of the drift in usage. The achievements of smaller countries look more impressive, but then, there are lots of small countries. Somebody has to achieve and become a large country. That's not improbable. For a direct example of what I mean: somebody called it 'ASB' that a medium-sized duchy should have come to dominate Germany. Hang on, since Germany was made up wholly of small-to-medium feudal states, what exactly did you expect?
And the countries that make it big have reasons for their successes.
I Blame Communism
Banned
Yep.
Now it is clear.
No, IMO the Nazis were not a "bad card."
I mean Russia miraculously recovered after this blow in no time.
But even discounting the demographic catastrophe: surely the effort put into, recovering, even if differently directed and partly wasted, would have without Hitler gone into building up the country further?
One can't assume that just because it did not immediately cripple a country means an event wasn't a disaster. History is distorted by perspective: events nearer to us appear to last longer. But given that we place the beginning of the end for western Rome in the century before it came about, I've no doubt that many historians in a couple of generations time will say unequivocally that the USSR was brought down by Nazi invasion. Perhaps the idea is right, perhaps wrong; but as an idea it's not absurd.
Yep.
Now it is clear.
No, IMO the Nazis were not a "bad card."
I mean Russia miraculously recovered after this blow in no time.
"Nazis just a flesh wound", eh? Would you argue that Russia would most likely be as screwed up in 2012 as it is today if there had been no Hitler? That might make for a thread in itself...
Bruce
I Blame Communism
Banned
There's nothing much to be done about living on a small island next to a big island. But the historical forces that led Ireland to its disastrous 19th century took a long time to tighten their grip (in 1700, after a not-very-fun 17th century, for economic historians make Ireland marginally richer and more developed than Scotland). Same thing, no?
Sure but Ireland can't be such a bad place is it's Belarussian fellas want to come to Ireland, so.
I'm rather fond of Ireland myself, although not so fond of its complex history being used as an excuse for American Anglophobia. After all, my granny was from County ******derry so by plastic paddy criteria I'm actually Irish myself.