AHC: Russian East Coast Colony

Tsao

Banned
With any POD after 1500, have Russia establish a colony at least the size of OTL Vermont on the East Coast of North America. Bonus points if they can maintain this colony up to 1800 and beyond. No ASBs!
 
I really hate to say this...but I just don't see it. In the 1500's and 1600's, Russia's only outlets to the Atlantic are their ports on the White Sea (Murmansk, Arkhangelsk, etc.), which are, well, really crappy for reaching North America-the White Sea ices up in the winter, and even the summer Russian ships still have to sail around Norway and across the North Sea just to be at the starting point of English or French ships. The construction of Saint Petersburg in the early 1700's lessens the problems somewhat, but even it isn't ice free in the winter, and most of the east coast has been claimed by then. And as for the Pacific...well, Russia didn't even have any infrastructure on it until the 18th century, and then not nearly enough to support regular voyages all the way around South America.

In short, we're talking about a country that, IOTL, barely colonized Alaska-which, despite all the mocking Sarah Palin gets, is rather close to it. I know you're not going to want to hear this, but them establishing a colony on the Eastern Seaboard just doesn't sound plausible to me.
 

Tsao

Banned
I really hate to say this...but I just don't see it. In the 1500's and 1600's, Russia's only outlets to the Atlantic are their ports on the White Sea (Murmansk, Arkhangelsk, etc.), which are, well, really crappy for reaching North America-the White Sea ices up in the winter, and even the summer Russian ships still have to sail around Norway and across the North Sea just to be at the starting point of English or French ships. The construction of Saint Petersburg in the early 1700's lessens the problems somewhat, but even it isn't ice free in the winter, and most of the east coast has been claimed by then. And as for the Pacific...well, Russia didn't even have any infrastructure on it until the 18th century, and then not nearly enough to support regular voyages all the way around South America.

Would it be any more plausible if they had a Baltic port?
 
Would it be any more plausible if they had a Baltic port?

Hmm...if the Russo-Swedish wars of the late 1500's go the other way, and Russia manages to permanently conquer Estonia and Livonia...then yes, Russian colonization of the east coast becomes possible. Not necessarily likely, but possible.

However, such a POD would (relative to OTL) upset the power dynamic in the Baltic and Northern Europe, and introduce a boatload of butterflies. The Thirty Years War would probably be rather different, for one.
 
Hmm...if the Russo-Swedish wars of the late 1500's go the other way, and Russia manages to permanently conquer Estonia and Livonia...then yes, Russian colonization of the east coast becomes possible. Not necessarily likely, but possible.

However, such a POD would (relative to OTL) upset the power dynamic in the Baltic and Northern Europe, and introduce a boatload of butterflies. The Thirty Years War would probably be rather different, for one.

Ivangorod being built early may also help.
 
POD: 1619. The Mangazeya trade route (aka the North-East Passage - modern Northern Sea Route) doesn't get forbidden.
The Pomors thrive much more and much longer. Russkoye Ustye (which appears to be founded pre-POD) is also a more significant town; so is Anadyrsk (assuming it still exists).
Now, it being Pomors (i.e. sea-based) rather than Cossacks (mostly land-based), they probably won't have a problem with continuing on to Alyeska (which IOTL took another century). In fact, they might well occupy most of OTL Canadian Northwest Territories and a large bit of Nunavut (by land (river) as well as sea expansion - compare Zashiversk for an OTL example: while it's mostly Pomors, the Cossacks aren't going to just disappear) by the 1660s... which is when the Hudson Bay Company comes in.
I would imagine that the Pomors and HBC could end up not meeting for several more years (the Pomors being more active in the north-western parts of Hudson's Bay and HBC in the south-eastern ones, that is, mostly James Bay); then they meet when the HBC guys arrive at the place that became Port Nelson IOTL (which by then is a major Pomor village).
Here the hard part starts. The English would say that they were granted that land by the King. The Russians would say that they got there from the other side, and what does their King have to do with that faraway land. Then someone brings up the Navigation Acts... At the end, the Russians probably end up with the Nelson River basin (and everything to the North of it), while the British get to have their precious James Bay - remember that there haven't been much settlement yet in OTL Quebec (or Labrador), by either the British or the French (this map shows the OTL situation in 1702; 1670s, I assume, would be even a little less).
At that point, I would imagine, some of the Russians find that one little loophole in the Rupert's Land definition... that is, that it doesn't include OTL Labrador, which is only a strait (the Hudson one) away from Russian lands at Baffin Island... and isn't really occupied by anyone else, at least in the northern part (honestly, looking at that 1702 map, in the southern part as well). In 1680 or so, the Russians take an opportunity to claim Labrador for themselves... by 1700, it's a full-fledged Russian colony. :)

Now, I assume Labrador counts as "a colony at least the size of OTL Vermont on the East Coast of North America"; as for the ASBs, I would be very interested if you manage to spot any :D It's, of course, still a huge Russo-wank (more so if you realize that by then they actually own just about every part of OTL Canada but the actually populated areas, as well as most of Cascadia), but it would've taken something even more massive than that to get Russia a colony on the East Coast in the usual way (as noted in this thread already).
I have no idea, though, how could they save that particular colony till 1800 (note, though, that nobody was really interested in Labrador historically, and 1700s is just the time for a Great Northern Expedition analogue, so it isn't too unlikely).
 
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