AHC: Russian Beijing

Well, that's certainly an...unexpected question. If Russia spent a lot more resources on infrastructure in the Far East and Siberia, and was a lot more aggressive in the Far East (at the cost of much of Central Asia and a lot of Eastern Europe), I could see Russia controlling Xinjiang, Manchuria, all of Mongolia (including Inner Mongolia), possibly Korea, and maybe Beijing. But Beijing is pretty improbable.

EDIT: Actually, this is kinda interesting. For a specific POD, I'd look into somehow turning Peter the Great's point of view away from the west and more towards the development of Russia as a unique, independent, powerful, industrialized Eastern power. Maybe a Chinese tutor at court? Then you could see some expansion to the east during his reign and likely even more under the Romanovs post-Peter.
 
Maybe a Sino-Soviet war leads to a crushing Soviet victory and a Soviet occupation of Beijing? Some sort of Axis China TL could do the same thing, except about twenty years earlier.
 
Well, that's certainly an...unexpected question. If Russia spent a lot more resources on infrastructure in the Far East and Siberia, and was a lot more aggressive in the Far East (at the cost of much of Central Asia and a lot of Eastern Europe), I could see Russia controlling Xinjiang, Manchuria, all of Mongolia (including Inner Mongolia), possibly Korea, and maybe Beijing. But Beijing is pretty improbable.

That might be feasible in the 19th century, but today those areas have a population far greater than Russia proper. In fact, even in the old USSR, had it included Manchuria, Inner Mongolia, and Beijing, Han Chinese might well have been the largest nationality, or at least a very close second after Russians.
 
That's why I proposed a late 17th century POD. And it's unlikely the Russians would hold them forever. If there is a RCW, I could see the Far Eastern provinces either shaking off the imperial yoke like the Baltic states, or maybe becoming the last holdout of the Czars (which would be pretty cool).
 
You can actually go even further back... it was only with the advent of the romanov dynasty when russia started to westernize.

If russia had a larger free moving population then the east could have been colonized a lot more quicker... that said I would also like to see a russian ukraine...
 
Some sort of combination of unsuccessful but bloody *Manchu invasions and famine that leaves parts of northern China depopulated?

If you'll look at the population density map of China, if we assume no unification of China and manchuria, you can see that Beijing is fairly close to the edge of the densely populated areas of China: if the capital is located further south, the local population density will probably be less. A Russian state expanding south and east out of Mongolia wouldn't have to take in too large a Chinese population to take Beijing, and if we add in a still *Manchu Manchuria, Russia will be on the northern border of China rather than deep within it.

Bruce

china_population_density-map2.jpg
 
Russia transforms the legation quarter into something akin to the international settlement of Shanghai (but with an aim to keep the Chinese pacified rather than trade). With more troops in the area, Russia holds the whole city as some kind of protectorate that swiftly falls apart after the Russo-Japanese war.
 

whitecrow

Banned
Russia transforms the legation quarter into something akin to the international settlement of Shanghai (but with an aim to keep the Chinese pacified rather than trade). With more troops in the area, Russia holds the whole city as some kind of protectorate that swiftly falls apart after the Russo-Japanese war.
Unless the war's outcome is diffrent ;).
 
Unless the war's outcome is diffrent ;).

it could be argued that a weaker china could lead to a different outcome of that war but i was thinking the only real way the Russians could take the whole of the chinese capital would be after the Boxer rebellion. The Qing were very low there and a stronger Russia in Europe could maybe hold Beijing after the alliance takes the city.

But by 1901 the pieces were already in place for the Russo-Japanese War anyway, an even weaker china could only force Japan's hand. With Russia focusing on keeping a larger land force to occupy the city, i would guess the outcome of the Russo-Japanese War would end the same way, with Russia getting whooped.
 
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