AHC: "Russia" governed from Constantinople

Your challenge is to create an empire that ends up governing the vast stretches of northern asia as Russia does in the present day, centered on Constantinople. This must be the de jure and de facto capital (so no 'Russia conquers Ottomans, sets up a ceremonial capital'). It must also not govern any more of Asia than... I'll be generous and say Alexander did.
 
Here's my quick take
- Bulgars take Constantinople in early 900s
- the Bulgarian Roman Empire expands north taking Kiev
- further Russian principalities come under the Empire
- later Emperors expand west across northern asia
 
Here's my quick take
- Bulgars take Constantinople in early 900s
- the Bulgarian Roman Empire expands north taking Kiev
- further Russian principalities come under the Empire
- later Emperors expand west across northern asia

Sounds fun. But why would the Bulgars prefer to expand to Kiev, rather than traditional Roman lands?
 
I'd meant in addition to the Roman lands they're able to take - so roughly the extent of OTL c1500 Ottoman Empire west of Ankara.

Certainly. But there's more wealth in the Mediterranean, and its pretty hard to rule over the steppe lands this early in the game for a sedentary society, which the Bulgars would have to be, ruling from the city.
 
My PoD of the Day - no Phocas, the Rashidun conquers Persia and moves into Central Asia too. It eventually splinters between Arabia, Persia, and Central Asia. Meanwhile the Romans create an Exarchate of Taurica that focuses on Steppe/Cossack style warfare, which backed by Roman money and resources comes to dominate the Steppe, before Roman forces unite the Rus under and Exarchate or two.

A different one is less PoD of the day. The Emperor, after seeing the Varangians and creating the V.Guard, sends a number of priests north into the Rus, specifically to ally with and convert the Kievan Rus and other polities. The Romans support the Kievan Rus in a joint treaty to prevent any steppe tribes from crossing the Dneiper, leading to a large number of Roman and Kievan forts, alongside Roman and Kievan settlers, who intermingle to form a hybrid culture. Inevitably conflicts arise over the territory, but those towns reliant on trade between the Kievan Rus and the Romans sell cold-weather gear to the Roman forces to make it easier to fight, as they march north to Kiev, winning a victory and making it into a number of smaller client Kingdoms, and taking the hybrid territory as a province. Over time, the slightly wealthier (i.e. Greece isn't repeatedly ravaged) Empire uses some of those resources to defend Anatolia more successfully, preventing Turkish conquest. The Rus Clients are lost when the Mongols invade (although the hybrid territories are successfully defended), but as the Khanate falls apart the Romans re-establish the Kievan Client state, and it becomes the rival of Moscovy - whilst Kiev tried to bring more territory under Roman rule (and thus thrive on their share of the tributes), Moscovy does the same for the Mongols. By this point the Kievan Russians are practically Roman (and are accepted as such), leading to a Kievan dynasty that not only dominates the Russias, but rules it from Constantinople.
 
Certainly. But there's more wealth in the Mediterranean, and its pretty hard to rule over the steppe lands this early in the game for a sedentary society, which the Bulgars would have to be, ruling from the city.
Any dynasty ruling from Constantinople is going to do that rather than expand into Russia. I just gave you what you asked for.
 
If you can get Catherine II to conquer Constantinople, her Grecophilia may cause her to want to put the capital there. It may take a few years, or even decades, but Russian Constantinople around that time is not that hard.

You could also have a Russia happily in the Continental System that negotiates with Napoleon to take Constantinople...
 
Russia conquers Ottomans, sets up a ceremonial capital
Can the scenario be twisted such as "Russia conquers Ottomans (more precisely Greese and the Straits), sets up a ceremonial capital, then a Grecophile Tsar moves ACTUAL capital and government there Peter the Great style"? Because I've read a TL with precisely this scenario.
 
Would any of the Tsars have considered moving the capital to Constantinople, if they'd conquered it in the 18th or 19th century?
 
Can the scenario be twisted such as "Russia conquers Ottomans (more precisely Greese and the Straits), sets up a ceremonial capital, then a Grecophile Tsar moves ACTUAL capital and government there Peter the Great style"? Because I've read a TL with precisely this scenario.

The problem with such a scenario is that Constantinople is here:

82f5cfb04dc50815b8b474f1f482ecef.jpg


and Russia is here.

commonwealth.jpg


Constantinople is a horrible place for a capital for that reason.
 
Nobody says it would be a good idea, and nobody says for how long such a construct should exist. In the TL I'm speaking about it thrived for 70 years before breaking down into what is basically "Greece + Bulgaria + Moldavia/Eastern Romania + Southern Ukraine" and the mainland Russia, ruled by two branches of the same dynasty (long story short, the people in Moscow got tired of being bossed around by the "Greeks" and declared separation from "Romea" but for like 35 years (the Tsar in question and his immediate successor) the construct existed.

That said, the TL is very specific and the primary PoD regarding Russia is in 1490ies and involves Mikhail Glinski, granduncle of OTL Ivan the Terrible, living longer and Ivan getting very different upbringing. The Straits conquest (&conseqences of moving the capital) occured in 1610ies, with the breakdown point reached by late 1630ies.
The first part of the TL (text only) is here http://samlib.ru/g/georg/avi16.shtml (in Russian). If you are interested, I can give link to the entire text in the thread, though it is at risk of getting bogged down in comments.
 
Constantinople is a horrible place for a capital for that reason.

But then again, St. Petersburg is also on the edge of the country.

Practical or not, ruling from Constantinople would seem like a glamorous idea - succeed the Romans and Ottomans. The claim to being a "Third Rome" would seem quite credible.
 
Since we're going with air-quote "Russians," my attempt at this AHC would be to wank the hell out of the Rurikids and have them conquer the Byzantines and then continue to expand over OTL Russian territory.
 
Certainly. But there's more wealth in the Mediterranean, and its pretty hard to rule over the steppe lands this early in the game for a sedentary society, which the Bulgars would have to be, ruling from the city.
Hmmm... let's take the opposite tack.

POD: Golden Horde adopts Chacedonian/Orthodox Christianity. They are a few degrees less hands-off with their Rus vassals, but the tottering domains of Palaiologoid Rome is tempting on a lot of political levels.

A protectorate is easy enough to secure by backing anti-Latin factions, and following a marriage alliance up with some poisoning (the Tatars pick up civilized vices quickly enough, besides the bride in question took a liking to her fellow) means that the Khan and Cesar of the Kipchaks added Emperor of Rome to his titles. While at least for the first few generations after the Baselius spends most of his time on the steppe, leaving the Patriarch and whoever is running the garrison running day-to-day matters in Thrace and the Bosporus, the combination of prestige and connections make taking yet stronger hold of the East Slavic principalities workable. The tail is doomed to wag the dog once gunpowder warfare undercuts the military advantages of Mongol Cavalry, but by then the political links are solid and moving the capital from New Rome is politically unthinkable.
 
It must also not govern any more of Asia than... I'll be generous and say Alexander did.

I don't think there's a way to get 50% or more of Russia without having more Asian territory than Alexander had. Asian Russia is 13 million km^2, and Alexander's empire total was 5.2 million km^2. I got this from Wiki pages for Russia, European Russia, and List of largest empires.
 
I don't think there's a way to get 50% or more of Russia without having more Asian territory than Alexander had. Asian Russia is 13 million km^2, and Alexander's empire total was 5.2 million km^2. I got this from Wiki pages for Russia, European Russia, and List of largest empires.

I mean in addition to Russia.
 

Magical123

Banned
Surving Byzantium enters dynastic union with Russia?

Creates an empire stretching across western Eurasia, turkey, and a reconquered Levant and Egypt?
 
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