Will Kürlich Kerl
Banned
Challenge: Sometime between September 4th, 1870 and October 24th, 1929, have the monarchy in France be restored.
AHC: Restoration of French Monarchy
- Thread starter Will Kürlich Kerl
- Start date
Kill Henry, Count of Chambord, in the early 1870s. He was the Legitimist Pretender, and he was childless, so his heir was Philippe d'Orleans, the Orleanist Pretender. The monarchists had the majority in parliament in the early 1870s, and the Orleanists had agreed to support him, but he was a reactionary idiot, and refused to take the throne unless France abandoned the tricolor.
Yes, you heard me, he turned down the opportunity to become king of one of the most powerful nations on earth because he didn't like the flag. It was a sign of the Revolution, and thus too liberal for him.
By the time he finally died in 1883, the monarchists had lost power in the Assembly and the Republic was too firmly established to overthrow easily. Kill him off, and the Orleanists would be perfectly happy to keep the tricolor, and as said the legitimists had mostly agreed to recognize d'Orleans as the next king.
Yes, you heard me, he turned down the opportunity to become king of one of the most powerful nations on earth because he didn't like the flag. It was a sign of the Revolution, and thus too liberal for him.
By the time he finally died in 1883, the monarchists had lost power in the Assembly and the Republic was too firmly established to overthrow easily. Kill him off, and the Orleanists would be perfectly happy to keep the tricolor, and as said the legitimists had mostly agreed to recognize d'Orleans as the next king.
Alternatively, maybe give him a son and he won't be so pig-headed. Throwing away your own legacy for a flag is one thing, but throwing away your child's is another.
Problem is that, as I understand it, the Orleanists only supported him because he didn't have a son, and so the Orleanist candidate was his heir. If Henry has a son (and raises him to be as much of a reactionary as he was), the more liberal Orleanists may not agree to support him.
It goes back to the issue of the three claimants to the French throne that jkarr mentioned. One of the reasons the 1870s is a good point for departure is that the Bonapartists have discredited themselves and the Legitimist/Orleanist candidates branches are about to merge.
Ah one of my FAVORITE topics!
First of, Henri didn't have a son because his wife wasn't able. She had some issue down there that kept her from being able to give birth. I can't remember what it exactly was but I'll look it up. So give him a different wife, perhaps his wife's older sister, who he wanted to marry but was persuaded not to.
The best thing to do would be to either kill of Henri before 1870 or have him accept the flag compromise offered (the revolutionary tricolor remained the official flag, with the Fleur-de-lis flag being the King's personal standard). That way the Legitimists claim combines with the Orleans claim. Then the only other claim was the Bonapartes, and considering that they just lost a massive war that cost France Alsace-Lorraine I doubt that many people will clamer to them.
The big question is what will the government look like and how powerful will the Monarch be.
First of, Henri didn't have a son because his wife wasn't able. She had some issue down there that kept her from being able to give birth. I can't remember what it exactly was but I'll look it up. So give him a different wife, perhaps his wife's older sister, who he wanted to marry but was persuaded not to. The best thing to do would be to either kill of Henri before 1870 or have him accept the flag compromise offered (the revolutionary tricolor remained the official flag, with the Fleur-de-lis flag being the King's personal standard). That way the Legitimists claim combines with the Orleans claim. Then the only other claim was the Bonapartes, and considering that they just lost a massive war that cost France Alsace-Lorraine I doubt that many people will clamer to them.
The big question is what will the government look like and how powerful will the Monarch be.
Having a candidate, who combines the Legitimist and Orleanist claims, would be the way to go ahead.
So have Henry, count of Chambord, rule as Henry V and being succeeded by Philippe, count of Paris, as Philippe VII.
The flag issue might be needed to overcome though. Having the tricolour as national flag and the Fleur-de-Lys as Royals Standard would be compromise. Maybe a third flag, combining the Tricolour with the Fleur-de-Lys.
Just like IOTL the German flag, where the government and military also use a variant, which combines the flag and the coat of arms.
Regarding the powers of the monarch, the count of Chambord was a reactionary, but his powers will probably be limited somehow in a Constitutional Monarchy.
So have Henry, count of Chambord, rule as Henry V and being succeeded by Philippe, count of Paris, as Philippe VII.
The flag issue might be needed to overcome though. Having the tricolour as national flag and the Fleur-de-Lys as Royals Standard would be compromise. Maybe a third flag, combining the Tricolour with the Fleur-de-Lys.
Just like IOTL the German flag, where the government and military also use a variant, which combines the flag and the coat of arms.
Regarding the powers of the monarch, the count of Chambord was a reactionary, but his powers will probably be limited somehow in a Constitutional Monarchy.
I agree. But how limited would his powers be? Would it be like the Bourbon Restoration, the July Monarchy, the Liberal era of the Second Empire? Or more like Britain's figurehead monarchy? This will have to be addressed with an answer that satisfies both the Comte de Chambord and the Comte de Paris.
You have a problem. The Monarchists only had a majority for about 6 months (if we consider the election not rigged, which it probably was by the prussian occupants). How do you get a monarchist majority when the best score they had after 1871 is 26% ? France wouldn't have a monarch after 1871.
The monarchists lost the majority only in 1876. Of course, opinion was shifting quickly. But it is perfectly imaginable that, if the monarchists had reached an agreement soon enough, they could have established a constitutional monarchy and people would have in majority approved.
What people wanted first was restoration of order. The regime able to bring it, namely a Republic, acquired a legitimacy it did not have when it was proclaimed.
What people wanted first was restoration of order. The regime able to bring it, namely a Republic, acquired a legitimacy it did not have when it was proclaimed.
What about a bit later, say a successful Boulanger coup? Weren't there indications he was a monarchist? That, perhaps together with a surviving Napoleon IV, might bring about a Bonaparte restoration although I dare say TTL's more canny Boulanger won't allow the restored monarch any real power.
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I’ve read somewhere that refusing the tricolor was just an anecdotic matter, since what Henri de Chambord actually despised was the possibility of a Westminster Monarchy, with the king playing only a ceremonial role. Considering his Ultramontane background, the only kind of monarchy he would have accepted was Prussian-Kaiserreich-like, you know, with free hand on appointing governments and a rubberstamp Parliament. I don’t know if it was too much for the Legitimists, but I’m sure that the Orléanists preferred to be impaled to this. That’s why Adolphe Thiers, contemporary French politician said “The Republic is the system that divides us least”.
Hence IMHO, best chance for the Monarchy to prevail, is having Henri de Chambord dead soon after the fall of Second Empire.
What happens if we kill off Chambord before 1871, such that, by the time the Third Republic is proclaimed, the Legitimist and Orleanist lines have already merged under the Orleanists?
I don't think that would work. The unofficial agreement between the Legitimists and the Orleanists didn't come about until, I believe 1870/71, after the Royalists won the majority in the National assembly. Before then, the Legitimists might consider Juan, Count of Montizón the heir, like the more reactionary Legitimists (now THAT sounds weird: A moderate Legitimist) did after the Comte's death. If you can get an agreement between the two Branches in the late '60s then that changes the whole game.