AHC: reclaim the swastika

A lot depends on context. As a symbol in eastern religions, Buddhist temples etc, it may surprise many but not necessarily repulse, especially once an explanation is made. To rehabilitate "the swastika", the blacked tilted swastika on a white background, +/- a red field Skippy the ASB needs to get involved. In a few centuries this may fade in to the past, but for the foreseeable future - nope. The fact that various hate groups use this symbol or very close analogues of the shape and colors (to dodge legal limitations some places) helps to keep the "negativity" alive.
 
Arguably it would have to be a movement from within the Jewish community to reclaim the swastika, like how the pink triangle has been reappropriated by the LGBT community. The problem is finding a reason for the Jews to do that, considering that prior to the Nazis the swastika had nothing to do with the Jewish people or faith.
 
Looks like someone kinda beat me to it... but I was gonna say... in a timeline where Hitler's invasion of Norway never happens and Finland fights on the Allied side, their air force swastika may become a recognizable symbol, perhaps if there is a major, charismatic, Finnish air ace that becomes as famous as the Red Baron was in WW1, with movies and videogames made about him, the swastika as a force for good may become a common trope so as to cleanse the symbol.

After all, plenty of fascist flags had eagles, arrows, crosses, and even the recognizable Italian fasces, and none of these symbols were tainted.

Yes, this was the Finnish Air Force roundel

I believe if Finland became an Allied state, it would still have to drop the swastika in exchange to a more "neutral" symbol. The Nazis would still use the symbol, and in terms of avoiding problems due to friendly fire, etc, the Finnish Air Force (and the army) would probably lose the swastika even earlier than IOTL.



145310_r500.jpg
 
Keep the symbol, but call it by a different name? Call the Nazi use of the symbol "swastika", but any other use of it, call it fylfot, gammadion, hooked cross, etc.

Maybe get American Indians involved too, since the swastika was used all over the Americas. Some older buildings in the US have (or had) swastikas incorporated into the architecture as an American Indian symbol.

But seriously, why would anyone wanna say "Hey this symbol is cool" other than as pure 150% shock value.

Because it is a cool symbol, in the sense that it's a simple, intriguing geometric motif with a history dating to the Neolithic, if not earlier, and a cultural use in both the Old World and the New World?
 
Years ago I saw a documentary about outlaw motorcycle gangs, there was a black biker who wore a swastika on his vest as an "F.U." to white supremacists biker gangs.
Maybe if more minority groups adopted the swastika in the same spirit as that biker, the swastika could be reclaimed as a symbol of non hatred?
 

CECBC

Banned
Could it be "reclaimed" as something bad? Like white gangsters who use Nazi symbolism build some big drug empire and the Swastika starts to be seen as a symbol of drug trafficking and organised crime.
 
I see the challenge not as to make the swastika represent something new, but to rehabilitate it to the point that it's widely acceptable to use it for purposes that were already in use. It would be tough, but I suspect that, when the sons of World War II vets aren't in the picture, it will be easier.

Back in high school, I did ask someone with swastikas if the symbol represented Hindu or Native American beliefs. The resulting white supremacist rant that he came out with got him the official notice of the teachers, and a suspension.
 
I'm pretty sure the actual fasces is tainted.
Not really, they are widely used, particularly in US flags, Norway police, the French Republic's Coat of Arms, since it is a symbol that predates Fascism, it used to represent authority of Roman magistrates in a strenght-in-unity sort of way, from the time of the monarchy. (With its use lasting through the Republic era and during the Empire).

By their widespread use I wouldn't say they are tainted, but some of this imagery certainly looks curious.

fasces.jpg


Chief,_National_Guard_Bureau_Flag_(2008).jpg


1280px-Armoiries_république_française.svg.png
 
Another idea--maybe a stronger early neopagan movement in Europe revives the swastika as a symbol--it has a very long history in Europe, and that's indeed why the Nazis chose it. Although neopaganism and nationalism have always been associated, some of them could make a decisive split from the segment of nationalists which became the Nazi types. So after the war, it becomes impossible to associate the swastika with Nazism except in the context the Nazis used it, like the Nazi flag.

Could it be "reclaimed" as something bad? Like white gangsters who use Nazi symbolism build some big drug empire and the Swastika starts to be seen as a symbol of drug trafficking and organised crime.

So white gangsters (probably a biker gang) using the swastika as a symbol of how rebellious they are? I dunno. I find it difficult to believe they wouldn't hold white supremacist beliefs to some degree or another, like the Aryan Brotherhood which has Hispanic members and is derided by many other white supremacists (mainly for their "degenerate" ways). Thus we're back to the problem of it being associated with Nazism.
 

Archibald

Banned
I remember being a shocked young aviation buff seeing a Swastiska on Finnish aircrafts. My immediate, "knee-jerk" reasonning was that Finland was in the Axis, so = swastika (and they had 109s, after all !)

The real story is entirely different.

In 1918 - long before the Nazis - the first Finnish combat aircraft, ever, was a gift from a Swedish Count with the name of Rosen... which personal emblem was a blue swastika on a white circle. The fledging Finnish air force adopted that emblema - until 1945 at least.
I remember a Bill gunston book of WWII fighters with a Finnish Hurricane carrying the swatiska... it made a very bizarre feeling.
 
...
Maybe get American Indians involved too, since the swastika was used all over the Americas. Some older buildings in the US have (or had) swastikas incorporated into the architecture as an American Indian symbol.
...

The US 45th Division of the Great war was raised in the Oklahoma area & incorporated a Swastika into its division ID/shoulder patch. It kept this when rebranded a National Guard Division in the 1920s. The Division logo was reworked with a 'Thunderbird' replacing the Swatstika circa 1939.
 
The US 45th Division of the Great war was raised in the Oklahoma area & incorporated a Swastika into its division ID/shoulder patch. It kept this when rebranded a National Guard Division in the 1920s. The Division logo was reworked with a 'Thunderbird' replacing the Swatstika circa 1939.

I wasn't sure if I should've mentioned them, considering their original emblem was replaced pre-WWII thanks to the Nazis.
 
Some twentyfive years ago a local Catholic church did some renovations on its main entry. Under the 1940s era linoleum they found a very expensive tile floor, featuring lots of swastikas. Research revealed records of a contract for renovation of the entry circa 1938. The stone & ceramic tile floor was probablly laid then. Speculation was the tile setters were of German ancestory & sympathy & sold the Bishop on their favorite motif for the floor.
 
Another possibility for reclaiming the swastika: A military formation from the USA, most likely from the midwest, keeps the swastika, saying, "That's OUR symbol, and we will wipe out those who profane it."
American war films and media pick up that story, so whatever unit is using the symbol gets a lot of newsreel footage. Now it's assocated with both sides :)
 
East Asia becomes the center of the world and starts exporting popular culture splattered with the 卍?

I mean, I know we're mostly from the West, but saying that we can reclaim the swastika when it is being used with no real issue elsewhere in the world is a bit of self-centered focus.
 
Another possibility for reclaiming the swastika: A military formation from the USA, most likely from the midwest, keeps the swastika, saying, "That's OUR symbol, and we will wipe out those who profane it."
American war films and media pick up that story, so whatever unit is using the symbol gets a lot of newsreel footage. Now it's assocated with both sides :)

"Hitler be damned..."

As far as I can tell, that town still goes under that name, albeit incorporated into a larger district. There's a photo somewhere of ManWoman standing next to their road sign.
 
"Hitler be damned..."

As far as I can tell, that town still goes under that name, albeit incorporated into a larger district. There's a photo somewhere of ManWoman standing next to their road sign.
I like that!
In Florida, there is a restaurant called Hi-Jackers, at the local airport. They opened it just before 9/11, and decided to keep the name, saying that they won't let terrorists make them change anything. The place is still in business, and you can watch the planes come and go from the outside seating.
http://www.highjackers.com/about-us/
 
You need to make an emotional appeal. Logic doesn't work for this. We all here on this debate thread, know that the Swastika was a religious symbol for centuries before the Nazis used it and it still makes us uncomfortable to ponder it.
So my suggestion, may sound borderline ASB, but strange freak accidents do happen after all:
Some Nazi War Criminal involved in the holocaust manages to escape to South East Asia under a false identify. After successfully hiding for over 10 years, some day he is visiting or passing by a temple when a certain religious symbol comes loose and he ends up crushed to death under a giant Swastika. After the authorities investigating the incident and realize who he is, the story makes it's way around the world. Once they are done laughing millions of people ask why there are Swastikas there in the first place and once they find out why, they become aware of symbols real origin for the first time. Also phrases like "Even a Swastika hates the Nazis", "Be like a Swastika: Kill Nazis", etc become a pre-internet memes. That might kickstart a "Don't let the Nazis own the Swastika"-thinking.
 
Top