AHC: reclaim the swastika

I just learned in this video that during the 70s British Punk-Rockers tried to reclaim the swastika as a means of shocking polite society.

Other attempts to reclaim and rehabilitate the swastika include the Canadian hippie artist ManWoman and Raëlism a UFO religion.

Such efforts have largely been unsuccessful, largely due to the symbol being so heavily associated with the pure unadulterated evil of the Nazis by everyone outside of Southern and Eastern Asia, and even amongst those who might hypothetically think reclaiming the symbol is a good idea there are few who would be willing to die on that hill.

Your challenge is to have a movement to rehabilitate and reclaim the swastika be, if not successful, then at least taken seriously. Any PoDs after 1900 are allowed, but the Nazis must still come to power, must still be as evil and destructive as IOTL, and must lose WW2.
 
8d83889b7ca5e440f1d1ef9cff721ad6.jpg


But seriously, why would anyone wanna say "Hey this symbol is cool" other than as pure 150% shock value.
 
No matter what, the Swastika will always be tainted by association with the Nazis, so unless you're waving it around to either provoke or shock, folks ain't gonna change that. Its a symbol that is (rightly) tied to the (one of the) most evil regimes in the history of the planet, and no PR company would be willing to try and change it.
 
No matter what, the Swastika will always be tainted by association with the Nazis, so unless you're waving it around to either provoke or shock, folks ain't gonna change that. Its a symbol that is (rightly) tied to the (one of the) most evil regimes in the history of the planet, and no PR company would be willing to try and change it.

I don't know about the "rightly" part. As a Finnish Air Force reservist, I do kind of resent that the FAF is frowned upon if it uses its original symbol at any occasion, a symbol officially adopted in 1918 and one that had by the 1920s been a Finnish/Finnic decorative motif for centuries.

Akseli Gallén-Kallela's triptych Aino from 1891:

aino.png
 
Thats a nice flag,but its not what most folks would ID as a Swastika. IE black and at an angle. Same with the ones used in old art or in Hindu temples. Sure its the shape but if its not this

National_Socialist_swastika.svg

Then most people won't associate it
What the OP's asking for is THAT symbol, IE the Nazi one. And I doubt anyone would accept that today.
 
Thats a nice flag,but its not what most folks would ID as a Swastika. IE black and at an angle. Same with the ones used in old art or in Hindu temples. Sure its the shape but if its not this

National_Socialist_swastika.svg

Then most people won't associate it
What the OP's asking for is THAT symbol, IE the Nazi one. And I doubt anyone would accept that today.

So the Finnish Air Force should be banned from holding its flags at a certain angle?

5380529.jpg
 
I honestly didn't know it looked like that. I'd have assumed they would change it to be like the one in the presidential flag (blue background and wheel thing in the middle). Learn something new every day :) I knew the Finnish had the Swasika on their stuff in WW2 but I always assumed that was a case of "Hey we're with the Axis!" rather than a national symbol.
 
Indeed, but in the west, most people will associate the symbol with Nazism. Also IIRC the Buddhist one is a reversed swastika (or was the swastika a reversed Buddhist one, can never recall).
 
The Buddhist symbol is always used and people, usually understand that they're not trying to be nazis.

The Finnish Air Force stopped using the Swastika as their roundel a long time ago, however maybe you can keep them from changing it, then people will realize that it can have multiple meanings and uses. That, or people will think the Finns are Nazis.
 
Indeed, but in the west, most people will associate the symbol with Nazism. Also IIRC the Buddhist one is a reversed swastika (or was the swastika a reversed Buddhist one, can never recall).
Both the left-facing and right-facing Swastikas were used by Buddhists (and other Indian/East Asian religions). The right-facing swastika became popular in the west and was the one used by the Nazis.
 
According to ManWoman, he actually did have some minor success with winning Jews over to his cause...

I met a rabbi in San Francisco who was very intrigued. Quite a few Jews have signed the declaration of independence of the swastika that I started a couple of years ago. One said, “Don’t tell my mother,” because he was breaking the chain of conditioning that has perpetuated the hatred of an innocent symbol wrongfully defamed. This was a brave act. And of course I have a lot of Jewish friends who have been challenged during our friendship and now see beyond their tragic past. I haven’t emailed the Jewish Defense League. No point in provoking people. I’m out to re-educate not to be intentionally a shit-disturber. However last fall in Calgary Alberta I had a show and one of the paintings contained a swastika representing the mystical source. Outraged citizens phoned the local JDL president who came over to meet me. He walked into the gallery, looked at the painting and said, “Now that looks more like the old Hindu swastika to me,” and I knew right then I could have a dialogue with this man. He told me to call him if anyone gave me static about it. All I ask of Jews is to look at the thousands of years of sacred history of the swastika and to say okay the swastika has another life independent of the second world war. Not everyone using a swastika is anti-semitic. Over half the world’s population still honors it as a sacred sign.

I think for a swastika rehab to work on a larger scale, you would need to connect the whole thing with anti-nazism somehow. Maybe have a feature-length cartoon about a little anthropomorphized swastika who escapes from Hitler's Germany to avoid being put onto a Nazi flag, and spends a few decades wandering around Europe disguised as a cross, until some British skinheads try to kidnap him to put him on THEIR flag, so he has to flee again, but not before explaining what the swastika really stands for, and how Hitler's use of it was a perversion. Maybe he teams up with an old Indian immigrant who is also aware of the symbol's honourable history, AND is also being harassed by the skinheads. At the end, they defeat the skinheads and rescue a bunch of other swastikas who had been forced to appear on neo-nazi flags.

Okay, that would probably still offend a lot of people, but you get the idea.

link
 
Both the left-facing and right-facing Swastikas were used by Buddhists (and other Indian/East Asian religions). The right-facing swastika became popular in the west and was the one used by the Nazis.
They're both frequently on flags. So they'll end up right or left facing depending on what side you're on of the flag. It's more the diagonal vs straight set up that differs them.
 
Old Hindu symbol? Were used? Disregarding old axis powers that still culturally glorify Hitler and his regime to some degree (looking at you Thailand and Japan), If you move away from a euro-centric worldview it is very much a commonly used symbol, at the very least several times a year at festivals in Hindu households..I had my name written next to one every year for good luck before I even knew what language was.

Really its about education...I have a friend who had a frightful shock when an agent got a jewish family to see their house and they were subject to a tirade of abuse.
 
Looks like someone kinda beat me to it... but I was gonna say... in a timeline where Hitler's invasion of Norway never happens and Finland fights on the Allied side, their air force swastika may become a recognizable symbol, perhaps if there is a major, charismatic, Finnish air ace that becomes as famous as the Red Baron was in WW1, with movies and videogames made about him, the swastika as a force for good may become a common trope so as to cleanse the symbol.

After all, plenty of fascist flags had eagles, arrows, crosses, and even the recognizable Italian fasces, and none of these symbols were tainted.

Messerschmitt_Bf_109G-2.jpg

Yes, this was the Finnish Air Force roundel
 
Last edited:
Old Hindu symbol? Were used? Disregarding old axis powers that still culturally glorify Hitler and his regime to some degree (looking at you Thailand and Japan), If you move away from a euro-centric worldview it is very much a commonly used symbol, at the very least several times a year at festivals in Hindu households..I had my name written next to one every year for good luck before I even knew what language was.

It used to be funny walking through the married quarters at 22 or 30 Sigs (and probably at 2 Sigs too but I was never posted there - they're the three Signal regiments with Gurkha Signal Squadrons) around Dashain time and see the swastikas drawn on all the Gurkha front doors.
 
Looks like someone kinda beat me to it... but I was gonna say... in a timeline where Hitler's invasion of Norway never happens and Finland fights on the Allied side, their air force swastika may become a recognizable symbol, perhaps if there is a major, charismatic, Finnish air ace that becomes as famous as the Red Baron was in WW1, with movies and videogames made about him, the swastika as a force for good may become a common trope so as to cleanse the symbol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilmari_Juutilainen
 
Top