AHC: RAF options after the BoB

...ie. what the Royal Air Force, in conjunction with the Air Ministry, should be doing after the Battle of Britain. Doing meaning what to favor/order/cancel/improve/import, cooperate with Allies as they became Allies, what strategies to pursue both for defense and attack. For Europe predominatly, then Med/Africa and Asia.

I'd love to see the thread as RAF-only - no FAA this time.
 
Recognise that convoy protection is their biggest job in UK for next 2 years.
Give long range ASW/Recon and shorter range ASuW priority (especially because needs are relatively small/attrition relatively affordable)

Similarly that Army support is needed outside UK and that the types used here must be cheap, rugged and easy to maintain.
This is where numbers will be needed.

So


Stop the panic buys of multiple foreign types.

Concentrate UK production on fewer types
Spit (increase and improve) ,
Hurricane (decreasing numbers & modified for ground attack) ,
Wimpey (by default)
Sunderland (hold numbers)
and Stirling (modified design for VLR ASW so limit numbers)

Setup more factories for simpler types especially in Aus and Canada


Similarly Concentrate active UK development on fewer types .. one fighter, one ground attack, one light bomber, one heavy plus one night fighter
In fact Spit, Beaufighter , Mossie and Lanc plus a NF design that may need to vary ( Beau and Mossie)

Accelerate the program for 4x 20mm cannon in all single engine fighters.
Look at all means of increasing range/combat time. Much better drop tank technology.

Reduce turrets on Night Bombers (for best speed) but increase firepower (at least 0.50 guns)
Develop a major sea and even river mining campaign ... using all otherwise obsolete medium bombers.

Look into effectiveness of bombs .. fuses first and then designs. Better explosives/incendiary sooner
(If possible Listen to Barnes Wallis and develop his 2 ton "small slam" that can be carried by a Wimpey)

Concentrate most Spitfires in UK but disperse many Hurricanes to Abroad (Med and Far East)

Increase training of pilots especially non white pilots

Avoid fighter sweeps over France. In time begin targeted raids with fast light bombers and escorts
Actually measure their night bombing accuracy and work with reality.

Transport aircraft on back burner ... ? adapt obsolete types.
 
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Ecellent overview.

If the main bombers' force is supposed to be used during the night time, emphasize stealth (in ww2 terms) and speed over turrets and machine guns. Indeed, take a good, hard look at night navigation & bombing accuracy, and act accordingly. Emphasis on Mosquito and cleaned-up heavies all the way.

Spitfire is a main type at least in next couple of years, make sure that it gets the best engine available and suitable, along with other means to improve it's capability (speed & RoC, firepower, range). So I'd go with Spitfire III, where the improvements in aerodynamics (windscreen, fully retractable & covered U/C) brought it close to 400 mph despite a not so powerful engine. The production of the Lysander need to be reduced so Westland can produce more Spitfires.
Hurricane will cease being 1st line fighter anywhere in England, send them abroad and to Scotland. Typhoon will need a facelift even before it is in production - perhaps go with wing of longer chord (= lower thickness percentage = lower drag = more speed), that can also house more fuel. Greater wing area will improve high altitude suitability.

Cancel the Vulture, even more resources to the Merlin and Griffon; Merlin deserves better installtion earlier than OTL. Send the Merlin to the NAA to try it aboard the NAA-73X.The 2-stage Griffon might be a good fit to the improved Typhoon.
Might as well cancel the Centaurus, more resources to the Hercules, plus jet engine at Bristol's.
ASW is a necessity, it keeps UK supplied so Germany can't prevail.
Night fighters - indeed the Beaufighter, and later Mosquito. Later needs to be produced in much more examples than OTL, for it's numerous duties/versions.
 

Driftless

Donor
Indeed, take a good, hard look at night navigation & bombing accuracy, and act accordingly.

I believe the British (and Americans too) were well behind the Germans on radio guided navigation. The German Knickebein and X-Gerat systems proved to be more effective than the British night navigation methods - for bombing. Is there a plausible POD for the British to develop their homegrown navigational "beams"?
 
I believe the British (and Americans too) were well behind the Germans on radio guided navigation. The German Knickebein and X-Gerat systems proved to be more effective than the British night navigation methods - for bombing. Is there a plausible POD for the British to develop their homegrown navigational "beams"?

Problem for the British when using radio guided navigation is range. Germany can cover most of England from stations in France and Belgium. British guidance systems can early on only cover Northern France, Belgium and Holland.
 
I believe the British (and Americans too) were well behind the Germans on radio guided navigation. The German Knickebein and X-Gerat systems proved to be more effective than the British night navigation methods - for bombing. Is there a plausible POD for the British to develop their homegrown navigational "beams"?

Gee and Oboe/Gee-H are both at least as and more accurate and jam resistant than any of the beam methods
 

Deleted member 1487

I believe the British (and Americans too) were well behind the Germans on radio guided navigation. The German Knickebein and X-Gerat systems proved to be more effective than the British night navigation methods - for bombing. Is there a plausible POD for the British to develop their homegrown navigational "beams"?
The did with Gee, Gee-H, and Oboe. The issue was they focused on radar developments for defensive fighting and weren't really close to having an offensive bombing force that could take advantage of a night guidance beam; pre-war they thought they could survive by day without fighter escort, which proved to be badly wrong and celestial navigation proved to be a bust; pre-war development that is impossible without major changes to where they spend their money, which screws them over in several ways.

Gee and Oboe/Gee-H are both at least as and more accurate and jam resistant than any of the beam methods
Part of that was experience jamming German beams. The Brits, when they got around to developing their own built in methods to try to avoid jamming, but the Germans did manage to jam the British beams some of the time.
 
Similarly Concentrate active UK development on fewer types .. one fighter, one ground attack, one light bomber, one heavy plus one night fighter
In fact Spit, Beaufighter , Mossie and Lanc plus a NF design that may need to vary ( Beau and Mossie)
I thought a lot of parallel development was because there had to be backup plans if one plane ran into unforeseen troubles.
 
Stop the panic buys of multiple foreign types.
Freeman OTL argued with the US that many of the aircraft ordered by Beaverbrook were not wanted by the RAF.

Concentrate UK production on fewer types
Already done by Beaverbrook - good as an emergency move, after that hindered aircraft production especially with new aircraft.
Spit (increase and improve) , - no change it was progressively improved throughout the war.
Hurricane (decreasing numbers & modified for ground attack) , - as per OTL, with the advent of the ME-109F the Hurricane was at a disadvantage for 'fighter' use.
Wimpey (by default)
Sunderland (hold numbers) - needs augmenting with a bigger version with longer range.
and Stirling (modified design for VLR ASW so limit numbers), I'd be tempted to use some in the Middle-East, so that Axis North African Harbours will always be in range.

Setup more factories for simpler types especially in Aus and Canada - Canada produced for too long the Blenheim (it should have been replaced).


Similarly Concentrate active UK development on fewer types .. one fighter, one ground attack, one light bomber, one heavy plus one night fighter
In fact Spit, Beaufighter , Mossie and Lanc plus a NF design that may need to vary ( Beau and Mossie) - then what happens to the Typhon, and Tempest, what about the aircraft lost in production as you switch over from Halifaxs to Lancasters?

Accelerate the program for 4x 20mm cannon in all single engine fighters - think the Spit (which you want to be the only 'fighter') was armed with a combination of cannon & Machine-guns.
Look at all means of increasing range/combat time. Much better drop tank technology.

Reduce turrets on Night Bombers (for best speed) but increase firepower (at least 0.50 guns)
Develop a major sea and even river mining campaign ... using all otherwise obsolete medium bombers.

Look into effectiveness of bombs .. fuses first and then designs. Better explosives/incendiary sooner
(If possible Listen to Barnes Wallis and develop his 2 ton "small slam" that can be carried by a Wimpey)

Concentrate most Spitfires in UK but disperse many Hurricanes to Abroad (Med and Far East) - that was the problem OTL, the Middle-East & Malta was starved of much needed Spitfires, which were hoarded by Fighter Command, too many to be thrown away in fighter sweeps over France.

Increase training of pilots especially non white pilots - Indian Air Force could and should have been expanded earlier.

Avoid fighter sweeps over France. In time begin targeted raids with fast light bombers and escorts
Actually measure their night bombing accuracy and work with reality.

Transport aircraft on back burner ... ? adapt obsolete types.

The RAF had too few Transport aircraft - Harrow & Bombay, it was policy to leave them to the US while 'we' concentrate on bombers.
 
I thought a lot of parallel development was because there had to be backup plans if one plane ran into unforeseen troubles.

That was the idea. What if the Merlin hits a wall and the only fighters we have are Spits and Hurricanes.

Problem was there was too much development. Then beaverbrook wielded the knife and there was too little.
 
That was the idea. What if the Merlin hits a wall and the only fighters we have are Spits and Hurricanes.

Problem was there was too much development. Then beaverbrook wielded the knife and there was too little.

Too little for us here & now, on this board discussing stuff, or too little that hampered the UK/Allied war effort?
 
Each different type of airplane had something to contribute to "lessons learned" ..... even if the lesson is "turrets don't work on single-engined airplanes."
Build small batches of most OTL airplanes and test fly them until weakness are discovered.
Simplify Training Command by standardizing on a few monoplane trainers. Follow the RCAF's lead in standardizing on Fairchild PT-19 .... or one of the half-dozen similar British designs. Make them out of plywood to see pressure on traditional aircraft manufacturers.
Encourage Rolls Royce to continue perfecting Merlin and Griffon engines as early as possible. To help that effort, send Hooker to RR as early as possible.
Scrap Vulture and Napier Sabre engines early on. Fund Whittle properly during the 1930s. Staff his machine shops and text cells with the brightest technicians and give him enough engineers, accountants, etc. to handle mundane chores. And for God's sake loan him an obsolete bomber to test fly jet engine prototypes.

Encourage Bristol to build Hercules engines by the thousands.
Build small numbers of Bolingbrokes and Beauforts and Beaufighters early on, but shift those roles to Mosquitos as soon as Mosquito production is sufficient, replace all the Beaufighters with specialized Mosquitos.
As Bristol phases out light bomber production, get them to work on upgrading Bombay transports. Encourage them with rough sketches of Bombays, Skyvans, Aerovans, Hercules, etc. until Bristol perfects a transport with a nose-wheel and rear cargo ramp. With sufficient incentive, they should be able to develop Low Altitude Parachute Extraction Systems in time for the 1944 invasions.
Hang cargo panniers under old bombers: Whitely, Stirling, Halifax, etc.
Kill Albemarle early on.
Train more RAF pilots as forward air controllers and forward artillery observers and send them on the ground with the leading platoon in every infantry regiment. Equip them with armoured cars and a variety of reliable radios.
FACs attached to the Parachute Regiment should accompany them into battle, arriving by parachute or glider.
Speaking of gliders ..... start earlier and more vigorously developing cargo gliders with rear ramps. Tow them with obsolete bombers.
Definitely concentrate on ASW. First, encourage Avro to develop Shackleton earlier. Secondly, develop a monoplane with 3 crew and an enclosed cockpit that can fly from the same escort carriers as Swordfish. Navalized Lysander???? Radar and radios are more important than torpedoes. Maybe a 20mm cannon or two to discourage deck gunners.
Speaking of 20mm cannons ... install 4 of them in every fighter as early as possible.
Quit wasting time installing .303 MGs in bomber turrets. A pair of .50 cal. Brownings should be the minimum for turrets on bombers. And install fewer turrets. When you remove the smaller guns, improve windows, heating and other crew comforts.
Install tail-warning radar, but try to develop frequency-hopping radar as early as possible.
Retire Bomber Harris once he has Bomber Command up to speed. Try to minimize terror-bombing of German residential neighborhoods. Instead, train bomber crews to aim for bridges, railroads and canals because if Jerry cannot deliver weapons to the battlefield ......
As for fighters, phase out Hurricane production. Encourage Supermarine to develop the Sea Fang much earlier.
 
The RAF had too few Transport aircraft - Harrow & Bombay, it was policy to leave them to the US while 'we' concentrate on bombers.

Makes sense actually. The bombers are more important as sea transports are a cheaper way to transport supplies and men than air transports. Leave the expensive and less commonly needed air transports to the Americans while concentrating your efforts on bombers.
 

Driftless

Donor
Makes sense actually. The bombers are more important as sea transports are a cheaper way to transport supplies and men than air transports. Leave the expensive and less commonly needed air transports to the Americans while concentrating your efforts on bombers.

Learn what works and what doesn't (on transports) and poach the good stuff without committing a ton of sterling to infrastructure and tooling that would need to be overhauled for the post-war years anyway. Put some thought into both trans-oceanic passenger planes and short hop commuters for use in Britain and farm out the useable surplus for use in the (soon-to-be-independent) colonial lines.

(That's pretty much OTL anyway, right?)
 
Train more RAF pilots as forward air controllers and forward artillery observers and send them on the ground with the leading platoon in every infantry regiment. Equip them with armoured cars and a variety of reliable radios.
FACs attached to the Parachute Regiment should accompany them into battle, arriving by parachute or glider.
Speaking of gliders ..... start earlier and more vigorously developing cargo gliders with rear ramps. Tow them with obsolete bombers.

Excellent recommendations. Hopefully this can be passed on to the US Army Airborne units starting with Normandy (attaching FACS to airborne regiments).

they should be able to develop Low Altitude Parachute Extraction Systems in time for the 1944 invasions.
LAPES in 1944 twenty years before it was invented OTL? That would be a crowning moment of awesome. That would be perfect for MARKET-GARDEN. Holland with it's flat open fields. At Arnhem the British could drop in the special assault jeeps for the proposed run at Arnhem Bridge.

Here are some of my recommendations:
-Get Bomber Command back on daylight operations. I am not saying abandon night bombing completely. It has been said before on this forum that the British could put some of the effort they put in night bombing into daylight bombing. The RAF did have some successful daylight raids (The Mosquito precision raids against Oslo, Copenhagen, etc). Since you are going to build long range Spitfires then start having them able to escort bombers into the Reich. Develop an RAF scout force, the daytime version of the pathfinder force. Lay off the Area bombing and concentrate on actually blowing up factories.
-COOPERATE WITH THE USAAF! Make a real combined bomber offensive.
-If possible work with North American on the Mustang. Start work earlier on making it a long range fighter.
-Develop a Tsetse Mosquito fighter-bomber earlier to kill U-Boats. You can use Beaufighters too.
-Send Spitfires to Malta and to the Western Desert earlier. As others have mentioned stop making Hurricanes and step up Spitfire production.
-Lend-lease P-38s for the RAF in CBI?
 
In practical terms what does it take to convert a not very specialist MP sqn with Halifax into bombers? Is it something that squadron or wing maintenance organizations could do? If so building up Coastal Command could be a strategy to indirectly build up Bomber Command: build up wings and groups of 4 engine bombers doing day Maritime Patrol and maybe attacks on coastal targets, while keeping BC artificially small. Then when CC is huge and the Uboats are supressed in maybe 1942 the unspecialised CC 4 engine bomber groups are given conversion to land bombers and chopped to BC just as Oboe and GEE come on line, doubling BC strength in weeks.
 
I would also forego the Rodeo Operations and send excess FC Spitfires to Malta instead.

I would also develop the Whirlwind, because whats a war without cool stuff.
 
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