AHC: Rabbi Yeshua Bar Yussuf

Ok, the basic contest here is to have (some of) Jesus points of view to be integrated with judaism.
POD is after his death.

main points of interest of such a reform would be
- a reduction of the relative importance of the mosaic law, and an increment of the stature of Man. (e.g. debate on Saturday work).
The claim of being "son of god" would be interpreted not in its literal sense, but rather as a metaphor to stress this point. Plenty of metaphors in the bible.
-> thus also a less formalized prayer ritual (Essenic influences and so on)

- an interpretation in the "spiritual sense" of several expression in the bible such as "kingdom to come" or "Israel"
-> thus a view of messianic hope which does not mean "Israel having its own kingdom"
-> thus also a more "active" role to gain more converts even oustide the racially Jew group.

Teaching initially refused by the "orthodox" Jew clergy to be adopted later (as it happened with so many other prophets) to make a reform of the Mosaic law.

In a nutshell, Jesus as a Jew Luther
 
Rabbi Yeshua.

Sorry, you really got me here..I'm not sure what you are saying or implying at all. Did'nt Christianity orginate in many places and in many different forms all over the Roman empire? Rather than having a specific point of origin with a single individual?
 
Christianity certainly picked up influences from several different fonts (Mithraism, Platonism etc), but it is historically established that some sort of preacher roused a bit of rubble around 786 Ab Urbe Condita, had quite a number of followers and was put to death.
I would like this thread not to be turned in a useless squabble about the fact whether Jesus existed or not, thank you very much
 
Rabbi Yeshua Bar .

Christianity certainly picked up influences from several different fonts (Mithraism, Platonism etc), but it is historically established that some sort of preacher roused a bit of rubble around 786 Ab Urbe Condita, had quite a number of followers and was put to death.
I would like this thread not to be turned in a useless squabble about the fact whether Jesus existed or not, thank you very much
You really invited it by putting it up in the first place. Maybe philosophical arguments are not meant for "Alternate History". Sorry..
 
You really invited it by putting it up in the first place. Maybe philosophical arguments are not meant for "Alternate History". Sorry..

Maybe some people should accept an OP at it's face value and not try to derail it into a flame war. But of course, this wouldn't be AH.com if t'were otherwise. :rolleyes:
 
You know, they probably could pull off Sealion if Aryan Jesus helped out: the walking on water bit seems like it could help...

Bruce
 
A Jewish Luther is not necessarily a Good Thing for (some of) the Jews. An Empire converted to "Lutheran" Judaism might persecute Jews following other traditions more viciously than it persecuted Jews OTL after it went Christian: after all, these are heretics rather than unbelivers who have a predestined role in the Apocalypse.

Bruce
 
I don't think that the scenario laid out here is really that unlikely, because it could be argued that a reform of Judaism was exactly what the historical figure of Jesus was actually trying to achieve, not an evangelical faith; after all, it's often forgotten that this sort of Jesus-following Judaism is exactly what continued to survive in parts of the Middle East until the nascent movement that became actual Christianity became dominant.

I think that if a timeline in which Jesus resulted in Christianity is regarded as though it were an ATL, the POD would be the point at which Gentiles became converted or influenced by Jesus instead of just Jews, because ultimately the influence of different traditions was what turned Christianity into Christianity; Easter, Jesus' birthday being on Decembe 25th, even a lot of the imagery utilises 'pagan' symbology (I dislike using that term and only use it for convenience), this and many other features of Christianity clearly result from traditions outside of that of Judaism.

So, it would seem to me that if you want an ATL in which Christianity is instead simply a reform of Judaism, the POD needs to be that no Gentiles end up becoming part of the movement. After all, pretty much every other Jewish prophet did exactly that, a renewal of Judaism, because dangnabbit, you leave these Israelites alone for ten minutes and already with the worshipping of the Golden Cows and the brazen snakes, yeesh.
 
Are you proposing something on the lines of ...
Enlighted by the Holy Light, Saul fell on the road to Damascus, hitting a hard rock with his head ?
 
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