AHC: Queen Juana I of Castile

[Kellan Sullivan]

However you like, make it that Juana 'la Beltraneja' succeeds her father when he dies.

Rules:

1) Isabel of Castile is not allowed to be killed in order to make this happen.
2) Any of Juana's ill-fated husbands/husbands-to-be may survive though - the king of Navarre, the duke of Guyenne or the duke of Lorraine, etc - (mostly because I find the idea of her marrying her uncle (Affonso of Portugal or Alfonso of Castile) gross (I know it was the done thing, that doesn't make it less gross, marrying her cousin, Joao II is fine though)) in order to get this done.
3) No ASB fairies: aside from another pregnancy in the same year as Juana (a son in December 1462), you can't go giving her parents a raft of children in order to make Juana's legitimacy more believable, for instance).
4) For the sake of the challenge, we are assuming that Juana is as legitimate as Isabel is (especially since no one has anything more than rumors "implying" that she wasn't).

Have at it, guys and girls.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Bumping this

 

[Londinium]

Perhaps have Henry IV put Isabel into a convent as soon as Juana is born so he only has to contend with a single half-sib [Alfonso] possible heir presumptive after Juana's birth. Of course, how Alfonso would be prevented from attempting to overthrow Henry as he did OTL without Isabel factoring in would be interesting. It's still somewhat debatable whether Isabel herself merely tacitly encouraged him or actually egged him on to attempt what might been a Regent Sophia deal. Then,too, would Alfonso have still died suddenly (and conveniently) in OTL before he left his teens? Regardless, I think Henry IV's most fatal flaw in his entire reign was underestimating Isabel's cunning, resourcefulness and determination -even more so than his dithering re Juana's being his own child.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Perhaps have Henry IV put Isabel into a convent as soon as Juana is born so he only has to contend with a single half-sib [Alfonso] possible heir presumptive after Juana's birth. Of course, how Alfonso would be prevented from attempting to overthrow Henry as he did OTL without Isabel factoring in would be interesting. It's still somewhat debatable whether Isabel herself merely tacitly encouraged him or actually egged him on to attempt what might been a Regent Sophia deal. Then,too, would Alfonso have still died suddenly (and conveniently) in OTL before he left his teens? Regardless, I think Henry IV's most fatal flaw in his entire reign was underestimating Isabel's cunning, resourcefulness and determination -even more so than his dithering re Juana's being his own child.

I agree as to Enrique's flaws, and let's not forget that Juana's mother was the one who supposedly had Alfonso poisoned. Do you think Enrique's repudiation of Queen Joana (and his divorce) aversely affected Juana's chances? I mean, if they had stayed married, the rumors would still be there, but by divorcing her, he sort of gave credence to the rumors, AFAIC.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Anyone else?

 

[Kynan]

Juana de Castile, only daughter of Enrique IV de Castile and his wife, who dies due to complications with the labour (which allows Enrique to sidestep the whole bastard deal and just say she's his), manages to convince Louis XI of France, being more compelling than her husband was OTL. With that support, the royal couple successfully convince the Pope to support their claim to the throne over Isabella de Castile's, and with some aid from Spain and the peoples of Castile who recognise Juana as Queen, they manage to take the capital. From there, it seems as God is on her side as she gives birth to an heir in late 1479, and watches her husband take many of the Castilian lands.

After her husband dies in 1481, she finds her stepson less than supportive of her claim, having betrothed his own to the eldest daughter of her aunt, thus ending his support for his brother. Thus, Juana looks elsewhere and in early 1483 marries the King of France's cousin, Count Charles of Angouleme. With his support, they are able to hold onto most of Castile, with the promise of the rest as a dowry when, in 1488, Castile and Aragon agree to peace with a marriage between the Infanta Maria of Aragon and Enrique de Castile and Portugal.

Juana, now officially Queen, finds herself and her son in an odd position when, in 1491, the Prince of Castile's brother, John II of Portugal, is left without his only heir, and thus, his brother, who is also heir to Castile, is left heir to Portugal. And with a wife who had not had a recorded pregnancy since 1482, that meant the potential for the Prince to claim that throne was very high. And, while there was some talk of the King setting aside his wife for a young, presumably more fertile one, in the end he died in 1495 and left Enrique as King of Portugal.

The death of Charles, Count of Angouleme the next year left the Queen of Castile a widow with four of his children: Maria, Charles, Juana and Luisa. Unfortunately, the Princess Juana would suffer an injury in 1499 that left her mentally unstable. However, apart from thus, all five of the Queen's children were healthy and happy, and in the wake of her husband's death she choose to forgo a third marriage, despite offers coming from various noblemen and women.

In 1501 she saw her second son married to Germaine de Foix, a French Noblewoman, as he begins his career as a French nobleman. Her elder son had married his intended, Maria of Aragon, in 1499, despite offers from Ferdinand II of Aragon for him to marry his elder daughter Isabella, who would remain unwed until her death in 1517.

Of the remaining daughters, Maria de Castile would, in 1499, marry James V of Scotland, but died in 1503 after the birth of her first child. Her sister Luisa, meanwhile, married in 1514 the King of France Louis XII, but had no children. She then went on to marry, in 1517, Charles III, Duke of Savoy, giving birth to two sons. Thus, Charles de Castile rose to be Charles IX of France, with his son Henri as his heir.

Now Juan of Aragon, Prince of Girona still dies without issue as OTL, and since Isabella of Aragon won't remarry, guess who now is next in line?!??!?! Maria of Aragon's line inherits Aragon, under her eldest son Juan III de Castile, III de Portugal and III de Aragon. And with that, we have Iberia under one man.

Now no longer the failed Castilian Queen, but the mother to two nations, and a woman who managed to, with a few good matches, unite Iberia and have her second son on the French Throne. There were some bumps along the way, but she has done much better than OTL.

Juana I de Castile (b.1462: d.1530) m. Afonso V de Portugal (b.1432: d.1481) (a), Charles, Count of Angouleme (b.1459: d.1496) (b)

1a) Enrique V de Castile, I de Portugal (b.1479) m. Maria of Aragon (b.1482: d.1517) (a)

1a) Juan III de Castile, Portugal and Aragon​

2b) Maria de Castile (b.1485: d.1503) m. James IV of Scotland (b.1473: d.1513) (a)

1a) Margaret Stewart, Princess of Scotland (b.1503: d.1552)​

3b) Charles IX of France (b.1488) m. Germaine de Foix (b.1488: d.1530) (a)

1a) Henri, Dauphin of France (b.1510)

2a) Joan of France (b.1511)

3a) Marguerite of France (b.1515)​

4b) Juana de Castile (b.1490: d.1509)

5b) Luisa de Castile (b.1493) m. Louis XII of France (b.1462: d.1515) (a), Charles III, Duke of Savoy (b.1485: d.1553) (b)

1a) Charles Emmanuel IV, Duke of Savoy (b.1518)

2a) Victor Philibert of Savoy (b.1522: d.1549)​

 

[DracoLazarus]

I did it in Land of Wine and Beer. Seriously, France invading Castille was a net loss in that civil war. It made the Juanista party look to be a foreign party.
France invading Aragon instead reduces Isabellista forces and could turn over the war.

 

[JonasResende]

I wonder if as a way of preventing Isabel from marrying Fernando, Enrique IV engages Juana to him instead. There was also a planned marriage between Juana and the duque de Segorbe after Fernando married Isabel, but neither Juan II nor Enrique IV possessed the political acumen to make that match work...

 

[kasumigenx]

I wonder if as a way of preventing Isabel from marrying Fernando, Enrique IV engages Juana to him instead. There was also a planned marriage between Juana and the duque de Segorbe after Fernando married Isabel, but neither Juan II nor Enrique IV possessed the political acumen to make that match work...

For me, Isabella can be married to the widowed King of Portugal or the Navarrese infantes if Ferdinand is taken.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

I did it in Land of Wine and Beer. Seriously, France invading Castille was a net loss in that civil war. It made the Juanista party look to be a foreign party.
France invading Aragon instead reduces Isabellista forces and could turn over the war.

I could see how it would be a case of Juana's marriage to a Valois might be seen by some as Castile becoming French, and yet, I like the idea of the French invading Aragon to in order to keep them in check.

I wonder if as a way of preventing Isabel from marrying Fernando, Enrique IV engages Juana to him instead. There was also a planned marriage between Juana and the duque de Segorbe after Fernando married Isabel, but neither Juan II nor Enrique IV possessed the political acumen to make that match work...

I agree about Juan and Enrique weren't the sort of men who would see that opportunity. Someone like Fernando II (maybe). Thus, I think for an Aragonese match, Fernando II is the best bet, although the option of Duke of Lorraine (Nicolas d'Anjou) would likewise make for interesting times. I could see Louis XI wanting to get him out of France, plus he has a claim to the Aragonese throne.

For me, Isabella can be married to the widowed King of Portugal or the Navarrese infantes if Ferdinand is taken.

IDK, Isabel seemed pretty against the idea of a Portuguese match. Options for Isabel to get her out of the country are marrying her to the king of England, Edward IV (the fact that she was still put out by being replaced by Elizabeth Wydeville in the 1480s ("replaced by that low-born 'widow of England'"), when Richard III sought her daughter to marry his son, seems to indicate to me that she was actually considering the match quite seriously); or the duke of Anjou, Nicolas of Lorraine.

 

[kasumigenx]

I could see how it would be a case of Juana's marriage to a Valois might be seen by some as Castile becoming French, and yet, I like the idea of the French invading Aragon to in order to keep them in check.



I agree about Juan and Enrique weren't the sort of men who would see that opportunity. Someone like Fernando II (maybe). Thus, I think for an Aragonese match, Fernando II is the best bet, although the option of Duke of Lorraine (Nicolas d'Anjou) would likewise make for interesting times. I could see Louis XI wanting to get him out of France, plus he has a claim to the Aragonese throne.



IDK, Isabel seemed pretty against the idea of a Portuguese match. Options for Isabel to get her out of the country are marrying her to the king of England, Edward IV (the fact that she was still put out by being replaced by Elizabeth Wydeville in the 1480s ("replaced by that low-born 'widow of England'"), when Richard III sought her daughter to marry his son, seems to indicate to me that she was actually considering the match quite seriously); or the duke of Anjou, Nicolas of Lorraine.

For me the best alternative bride for Ferdinand of Aragon is Mary of Burgundy, however she needs a younger brother or needs to get expelled from Aragon.

Perhaps just have Enrique support the claims of Nicholas to Aragon in exchange for a marriage to Isabella..

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

For me the best alternative bride for Ferdinand of Aragon is Mary of Burgundy, however she needs a younger brother or needs to get expelled from Aragon.

Perhaps just have Enrique support the claims of Nicholas to Aragon in exchange for a marriage to Isabella..

I think Enrique and the French king might be in a sort of agreement about that. Louis XI doesn't want Nicolas in France, Enrique doesn't want Isabel in Castile as a threat to his darling daughter. So, it could work.

However, if Fernando is left without a crown (for whatever reason - the Angevin invasion of Aragon is successful or something), then maybe for Marie. Otherwise, I don't know if Louis XI is going to want her married to someone so virulently anti-French - who just happens to hold the kingdom next door to France in the south, and is now by marriage, overlord of the kingdom next door in the north.

 

[kasumigenx]

I think Enrique and the French king might be in a sort of agreement about that. Louis XI doesn't want Nicolas in France, Enrique doesn't want Isabel in Castile as a threat to his darling daughter. So, it could work.

However, if Fernando is left without a crown (for whatever reason - the Angevin invasion of Aragon is successful or something), then maybe for Marie. Otherwise, I don't know if Louis XI is going to want her married to someone so virulently anti-French - who just happens to hold the kingdom next door to France in the south, and is now by marriage, overlord of the kingdom next door in the north.

I think Ferdinand being a threat to France by marrying Mary of Burgundy is solved by having Nicholas crowned as the king of aragon and marry Isabella.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

I think Ferdinand being a threat to France by marrying Mary of Burgundy is solved by having Nicholas crowned as the king of aragon and marry Isabella.

It's all well and dandy to handwave Nicolas to be king of Aragon, but it's getting him there to start with. The French king's not necessarily going to support him monetarily, nor is Enrique, so he's going to have to get funding somewhere. If he is successful, then yes, Fernando marrying Marie is good business. However, you'd have to persuade Louis XI that financially supporting Nicolas to set up shop in Aragon is going to be a good longterm investment.

 

[kasumigenx]

It's all well and dandy to handwave Nicolas to be king of Aragon, but it's getting him there to start with. The French king's not necessarily going to support him monetarily, nor is Enrique, so he's going to have to get funding somewhere. If he is successful, then yes, Fernando marrying Marie is good business. However, you'd have to persuade Louis XI that financially supporting Nicolas to set up shop in Aragon is going to be a good longterm investment.

The question is what would happen to Provence and Anjou once Nicholas becomes King of Aragon.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

The question is what would happen to Provence and Anjou once Nicholas becomes King of Aragon.

Most likely Louis seizes them, don't want a nasty foreigner holding lands on your kingdom, or he has Nicolas' heirs deprived of them (assuming an OTL death date for Nicolas), since otherwise, le bon roi René still holds Anjou and Provence - as well as the Neapolitan 'crown'. René would most likely partition the inheritance as OTL - Nicolas('s heirs get everything outside France - Naples, Lorraine etc) that Louis can't touch, while Anjou and Provence go to the duc du Maine - who is after all Louis' godson.

 

[Cornelis]

Most likely Louis seizes them, don't want a nasty foreigner holding lands on your kingdom, or he has Nicolas' heirs deprived of them (assuming an OTL death date for Nicolas), since otherwise, le bon roi René still holds Anjou and Provence - as well as the Neapolitan 'crown'. René would most likely partition the inheritance as OTL - Nicolas('s heirs get everything outside France - Naples, Lorraine etc) that Louis can't touch, while Anjou and Provence go to the duc du Maine - who is after all Louis' godson.

Provence is not in the Kingdom, it is an imperial fiefdom which was never controlled by the French crown. But I agree, a compensation is in order. Would Louis be satisfied with Anjou, or would Nicholas need to put Lorraine and/or Provence in the basket too ? Given Louis' interest at the time, Lorraine is his more likely target.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Provence is not in the Kingdom, it is an imperial fiefdom which was never controlled by the French crown. But I agree, a compensation is in order. Would Louis be satisfied with Anjou, or would Nicholas need to put Lorraine and/or Provence in the basket too ? Given Louis' interest at the time, Lorraine is his more likely target.

Perhaps, but he's going to need the Holy Roman Emperor to acknowledge him as duke of Lorraine. Sigmund, Holy Roman Emperor enfeoffed René d'Anjou over Antoine I de Vaudémont. Louis is going to find it difficult since he technically has no claim to Lorraine - as opposed to Frédéric de Vaudemont - if Nicolas does trade it away. Provence I could see going to the duc du Maine on the understanding that if he dies without children, it becomes property of the French crown.

 

[JonasResende]

I'm wondering if I'm alone in thinking this, but after reading about the duke of Guyenne (Louis XI's brother), I can't help seeing certain similarities to George, duke of Clarence and Richard, duke of York. Like George he was never grateful for what he got, and always thought he was owed more than he was given, and like Richard, he spent most of his life being second-in-line to the throne, so the power went to his head, I guess.

If Guyenne were to marry (no Marie of Burgundy, his brother's going to curbstomp that one), maybe to Juana 'la Beltraneja' or Isabel 'la Catolica' of Castile*, how might this affect things? Sure it gets either lady out of the country, but would there be any French assistance in backing Guyenne's wife/children's claim to the Castilian throne against the other party? And if there was, could the duchesse de Guyenne become queen? What would a Valois Castile look like, and would anyone put up with it?

 

[kasumigenx]

I'm wondering if I'm alone in thinking this, but after reading about the duke of Guyenne (Louis XI's brother), I can't help seeing certain similarities to George, duke of Clarence and Richard, duke of York. Like George he was never grateful for what he got, and always thought he was owed more than he was given, and like Richard, he spent most of his life being second-in-line to the throne, so the power went to his head, I guess.

If Guyenne were to marry (no Marie of Burgundy, his brother's going to curbstomp that one), maybe to Juana 'la Beltraneja' or Isabel 'la Catolica' of Castile*, how might this affect things? Sure it gets either lady out of the country, but would there be any French assistance in backing Guyenne's wife/children's claim to the Castilian throne against the other party? And if there was, could the duchesse de Guyenne become queen? What would a Valois Castile look like, and would anyone put up with it?

Actually, if the Duke of Burgundy has a son, the marriage of Ferdinand of Aragon and Mary of Burgundy can happen and the possibility of the marriage of Ferdinand and Isabella becomes impossible..