AHC: Qing Dynasty and Ottoman Empire become major players in WWII

The challenge is to make Qing Dynasty and Ottoman Empire major players in WWII, with PODs as late as 1900...
Is this impossible...?
 
China: The latest possible POD would be assassinating the Empress Dowager before she stops the Hundred Days Reform and somehow get Emperor Guangxu to rules as a constitutional monarch.

Ottoman Empire: Be neutral in WWI.
 
Problem with the Qing Empire:
Slightly hard to achieve major playerhood with a POD this late - even survival could perhaps be problematic.
Problem with the Ottoman Empire:
Hard to get the OTL WW2, as a result of problems with keeping the Great War reasonably parallell. Now, if we make it simply *a* WW2 - not entirely unreasonable to assume that naming could end up similar -...
 
Problem with the Qing Empire:
Slightly hard to achieve major playerhood with a POD this late - even survival could perhaps be problematic.
Problem with the Ottoman Empire:
Hard to get the OTL WW2, as a result of problems with keeping the Great War reasonably parallell. Now, if we make it simply *a* WW2 - not entirely unreasonable to assume that naming could end up similar -...

China was a major player in WWII, a Qing Empire that muddles along a few decades longer would play much a similar role.

The Middle East was a distraction more than anything else in WWI. I don't see how that war would have ended substantially differently than OTL if the Ottomans stayed out of it.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
The Middle East was a distraction more than anything else in WWI. I don't see how that war would have ended substantially differently than OTL if the Ottomans stayed out of it.

Hundreds of thousands of British, French and Russian troops would have been available for service on the Western and Eastern Fronts, and German efforts to subvert British rule in India would never have gotten off the ground.
 
Hundreds of thousands of British, French and Russian troops would have been available for service on the Western and Eastern Fronts, and German efforts to subvert British rule in India would never have gotten off the ground.

Yes, the Entente powers will win the war, just as they did IOTL. So no real change in outcome. The resources expended on the Middle East front was a drop in the bucket compared with the war in Europe.
 
China was a major player in WWII, a Qing Empire that muddles along a few decades longer would play much a similar role.
I suppose it depends upon how one defines 'major player', agreed.
Yes, the Entente powers will win the war, just as they did IOTL. So no real change in outcome. The resources expended on the Middle East front was a drop in the bucket compared with the war in Europe.
Russia will be differently. More so as it would be hard for the Ottomans both to block transportation through the Dardanelles and stay out of the war. We've had discussions of Ottoman neutrality before, and as it turns out, the resources expended on the Middle East wasn't everything. For instance, there won't be a Gallipolli, with all that entails.
 
Hmmm, in A Feast of Eagles China and the Ottomans emerge as victors alongside their German and British allies, so the next world war, they would both have been major powers...

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
But it would still be the Second Great War, and thus World War 2...

Its all in the name :)

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

Yeah, the WWII didn't necessarily "Axis vs Allies"...
What I want to ask was, could the Ottomans and the Qing Chinese survive after the "Great War", or were they really doomed...?
 
Yeah, the WWII didn't necessarily "Axis vs Allies"...
What I want to ask was, could the Ottomans and the Qing Chinese survive after the "Great War", or were they really doomed...?

Don't know about China, but the Ottomans if they'd stayed neutral in WWI could avoid the Arab Rebellion (which, as far as I know, was provoked by the Brits) and thus remain stable and alive after the war (even moreso when they discover oil).
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Don't know about China, but the Ottomans if they'd stayed neutral in WWI could avoid the Arab Rebellion (which, as far as I know, was provoked by the Brits) and thus remain stable and alive after the war (even moreso when they discover oil).
And probably enter a third Constitutional Era in the early 20s, and become a nice democracy.
 
China was a major player in WWII, a Qing Empire that muddles along a few decades longer would play much a similar role.

I define "major players" as nations that formally joined one side, as well as actively fighting and campaigning agains their enemies, both offensively and defensively...
 
A CP victory in WWI could see the Ottomans surviving and being a major player in an alt-WWII. Qing China is a lot harder, since you have big problems keeping the dynasty in power, let alone joining a World War. OTL, China was a big player in the Pacific War, so if you can get the Qing to survive and get some measure of popular support, they could fill the same role. I think the main POD for this scenario would have to be the Hundred Days' Reform succeeding, and a CP victory as a result of this. Then, you can get an alt-WWII with the Ottomans and Qing China involved.
 
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