AHC: Prussia challenge

All Rounder

Gone Fishin'
The challenge is this: Try to have Prussia survive up to modern day Europe while retaining these borders and not having Southern Germany unite with it:
*All duchies are annexed into the Prussian Empire that are inside of it or inhibit borders*

prussia.png


What would the affect be on the world today if it were still around is the main goal of this challenge.
 
So no war of 1870/71? Because the borders from Prussia are the result of 1866.
If you forbid any changes of the borders of Prussia towards Denmark, Russia (or Polish Russia, which could gain independence), Austria-Hungaria, the Netherlands, and Belgium, the result would be, that every kind of war on a large scale in central Europe is forbidden, or Prussia isn't allowed to participate in these wars, or Prussia isn't allowed to win or loose such a central European war.
The smaller principalities and Oldenburg, and Mecklenburg have no choice but to cooperate with Prussia. A formal annexation isn't even necessary for that. And the decision to form the "Norddeutschen Bund" (some kind of federation between Prussia and other states in northern Germany) was even 5 days before the peace treaty with Austria-Hungary. But by your challenge the "Norddeutscher Bund" could only become some kind of military alliance and confederation, and not a country, because this would perhaps change Prussia.
The principalities in Thuringia are to small to be relevant in any matter.
It would be interesting which side Bavaria, Baden and Würrtemberg choose. In OTL they had some secret treaties with Prussia.
If Austria-Hungary or France would try to annex parts of them, the result would be a war with Prussia, which is forbidden by your challenge, because a Prussian defeat would also change the borders of Prussia, and a victory of Prussia could lead to German Unification.

The "Zollverein" between Prussia and other German states (but without Austria-Hungary) would mean, that economic growth is still possible in Germany without the unification.

The greatest result would be the no devastation of central Europe because World Wars are impossible (in Central Europe) according to your challenge. Therefore the Age of Imperialism could remain longer (but not indefinitely) (because the Colonial Powers are perhaps not exhausted (like OTL because of the World Wars). In Central Europe many old buildings would survive, this would change the look of German cities compared to OTL.
Prussia is still powerful enough to gain some small colonies.
Stronger regional identities in Baden, Würrtemberg, Bavaria, Saxony, Hessen-Darmstadt are maybe the result.

Some form of constitutional monarchy is possible in the 2000ies in the German States, but if there is some form of crisis (economic, political) some of them could become republics.
 

All Rounder

Gone Fishin'
So no war of 1870/71? Because the borders from Prussia are the result of 1866.
If you forbid any changes of the borders of Prussia towards Denmark, Russia (or Polish Russia, which could gain independence), Austria-Hungaria, the Netherlands, and Belgium, the result would be, that every kind of war on a large scale in central Europe is forbidden, or Prussia isn't allowed to participate in these wars, or Prussia isn't allowed to win or loose such a central European war.
The smaller principalities and Oldenburg, and Mecklenburg have no choice but to cooperate with Prussia. A formal annexation isn't even necessary for that. And the decision to form the "Norddeutschen Bund" (some kind of federation between Prussia and other states in northern Germany) was even 5 days before the peace treaty with Austria-Hungary. But by your challenge the "Norddeutscher Bund" could only become some kind of military alliance and confederation, and not a country, because this would perhaps change Prussia.
The principalities in Thuringia are to small to be relevant in any matter.
It would be interesting which side Bavaria, Baden and Würrtemberg choose. In OTL they had some secret treaties with Prussia.
If Austria-Hungary or France would try to annex parts of them, the result would be a war with Prussia, which is forbidden by your challenge, because a Prussian defeat would also change the borders of Prussia, and a victory of Prussia could lead to German Unification.

The "Zollverein" between Prussia and other German states (but without Austria-Hungary) would mean, that economic growth is still possible in Germany without the unification.

The greatest result would be the no devastation of central Europe because World Wars are impossible (in Central Europe) according to your challenge. Therefore the Age of Imperialism could remain longer (but not indefinitely) (because the Colonial Powers are perhaps not exhausted (like OTL because of the World Wars). In Central Europe many old buildings would survive, this would change the look of German cities compared to OTL.
Prussia is still powerful enough to gain some small colonies.
Stronger regional identities in Baden, Würrtemberg, Bavaria, Saxony, Hessen-Darmstadt are maybe the result.

Some form of constitutional monarchy is possible in the 2000ies in the German States, but if there is some form of crisis (economic, political) some of them could become republics.

I have to admit, I can only come up with interesting questions or answers to questions without anything in between. Otherwise this a great start to this thread, good job!
 
The challenge is this: Try to have Prussia survive up to modern day Europe while retaining these borders and not having Southern Germany unite with it:
*All duchies are annexed into the Prussian Empire that are inside of it or inhibit borders*

View attachment 275951

What would the affect be on the world today if it were still around is the main goal of this challenge.

Well I'm interpreting this question as the annexation of those tiny North German states into Prussia, with the only independent German states remaining as Bavaria, Baden, Württemberg and Saxony. For Prussia not to annex the southern German states we essentially need them to be incapable of doing so. This means that Austria is probably more influential and has managed to tie the South German states together somehow against Prussian expansion. I'd imagine there would be a suddeutscherbund under collective leadership with Bavaria first among equals, but with Austria essentially dictating policy and guaranteeing security.

The real wildcard is what happens to Saxony. It doesn't really fit into the southern german federation. Most likely I see it as being annexed by Austria or Prussia, maybe having its life prolonged as a useful buffer.
 
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