AHC: Proto-Communism before the Industrial Revolution.

SaucePlease

Banned
Is it possible to have a pseudo-Communist society before the 1800s? These are the principles of Communism.
  • Common ownership of the means of production.
  • No social classes
  • No money
  • No government
I would also prefer it if said society has made it past the Iron Age/Agricultural Revolution. When I think of Communism, I doubt Marx envisioned Tribal hunter/gatherers sharing things as an ideal community.
 
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Marx himself talked about "Primitive Communism". Marx also suggests that society must go through various stages: 1) Primitive Communism; 2) Ancient (Slave-Based); 3) Feudal; 4) Capitalist; 5) Socialist; 6) Communist. Therefore from a Marxist perspective the idea of going to say Feudal to Communist is an impossibility. Obviously Marx may have been wrong, but the lack any examples suggests in this case he was not.
 

SaucePlease

Banned
Marx himself talked about "Primitive Communism". Marx also suggests that society must go through various stages: 1) Primitive Communism; 2) Ancient (Slave-Based); 3) Feudal; 4) Capitalist; 5) Socialist; 6) Communist. Therefore from a Marxist perspective the idea of going to say Feudal to Communist is an impossibility. Obviously Marx may have been wrong, but the lack any examples suggests in this case he was not.

I mean many countries in Africa has had communist governments in the past like Angola, Benin, Congo, Ethiopia, etc. The Communist government didn't replace a capitalist society but a more feudal/tribal one. None of these nations were too successful, but to be fair, the capitalist states in Africa aren't that great either.
 
1. Russian mir
2. Iroquoian society

Both isn't perfect. Its mostly localized at village level, and there are differences between rich farmer and poor farmer. But most property held in common or by lineage.

I don't think no money and no government is possible. Even pre-bronze age had cowrie shell and tribal government.
 
I mean many countries in Africa has had communist governments in the past like Angola, Benin, Congo, Ethiopia, etc. The Communist government didn't replace a capitalist society but a more feudal/tribal one. None of these nations were too successful, but to be fair, the capitalist states in Africa aren't that great either.

Not a communist government, a communist society; something which has never properly existed.
 

SaucePlease

Banned
Mazdak was a Persian Zoroastrian reformer/clergyman who lived in the Sixth Century or so. He called for redistributing the wealth and ending the noble practice of polygamy (which took wives away from the poor), or something like that.

He probably sounds like the best candidate for this challenge. Can Communism work in a religious framework?
 

yoyo

Banned
Mazdak was a Persian Zoroastrian reformer/clergyman who lived in the Sixth Century or so. He called for redistributing the wealth and ending the noble practice of polygamy (which took wives away from the poor), or something like that.
Also a potential incel rebellion.
 
Think it is definitely doable. The two most famous communist revolutions were substantially driven by the rural peasantry, rather than just the urban proletariat predicted by Marx. This is why the flags often include a sickle rather than a hammer.

The biggest difficulty is to break the hold of organized religion over the rural peasantry, which historically kept them in check. That was only really done in the 1800s in our timeline.
 
I mean many countries in Africa has had communist governments in the past like Angola, Benin, Congo, Ethiopia, etc. The Communist government didn't replace a capitalist society but a more feudal/tribal one. None of these nations were too successful, but to be fair, the capitalist states in Africa aren't that great either.

I think from a pure maxist view it would fall into one of two 'camps'

1. Feudalists masquerading as communists, to get support from their supporting sovereign, Soviet

2. The Colonial age was de-facto capitalist, with feudal undertones
 
No one have a POD for Inca?
As much as growing interest and studies on Tawantinsuyu have given the region the attention that is due, the common view of the empire as a "proto-socialistic society" everpresent is deeply flawed. Tawantinsuyu indeed lacked "money" and had what we could call a welfare state, but there was no common ownership of the means of production (a core tenant of socialism/communism) instead it being owned by the Incas (the elite), the state (run by the elites) levied taxes over the population, plus they also had a caste system, not very socialistic.
 
'
What is an incel?

You're going to regret asking ;) Its short for "involuntarily celibate." Too keep it somewhat clean, it's an internet subculture of men who aren't having sex and blame it on women, feminism, some hypothetical alpha male named "Chad" who is getting all the women, and the unfairness of society. It's ... about as bad as you'd expect, and has inspired on a few mass shootings.

But that is all i will say on the matter, as it verges on the politics ban.
 
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