AHC: Protestant Austria

[Kaiser Tito]

With a pod after 1521, how can we get the Archduchy of Austria become majority Protestant? Would the local Hapsburgs decide to convert or was there an otl Protestant house to take their place? Would they remain united with Bohemia or were the Hussites too different to reconcile and they still try to separate under denominational differences? Would this Protestant Austria still rule Germany or would control move to the North?

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Near ASB?
Unless Habsburgs all go extinct or marry into Protestant dynasties.
Perhaps Philip II converts to Protestantism, convinces Mary to do so too (or Henry VIII convinced his oldest daughter to convert), and they have a child that inherits Austria and starts a Protestant tradition?

 

[Kaiser Tito]

Near ASB?
Unless Habsburgs all go extinct or marry into Protestant dynasties.
Perhaps Philip II converts to Protestantism, convinces Mary to do so too (or Henry VIII convinced his oldest daughter to convert), and they have a child that inherits Austria and starts a Protestant tradition?

General consensus seems to be that the counterreformation could've failed so it probably wasn't asb.

 

[Comte de Geneve]

Not anywhere near ASB since Protestantism was strong in Upper and Lower Austria, especially under Rudolf and Mathais. One possibility would be the failure of the Council of Trent to successfully initiate the Counter-reformation. Specifically for Austria you must keep Ferdinand II confined to Styria or even better butterflied away completely or struck by an insanity ray. With some other dynastic accidents it is entirely possible or even probable.

 

[Kaiser Tito]

Not anywhere near ASB since Protestantism was strong in Upper and Lower Austria, especially under Rudolf and Mathais. One possibility would be the failure of the Council of Trent to successfully initiate the Counter-reformation. Specifically for Austria you must keep Ferdinand II confined to Styria or even better butterflied away completely or struck by an insanity ray. With some other dynastic accidents it is entirely possible or even probable.

Would it be be possible for the northern states to turn the tables and after unifying the rest of Germany they absorb Austria and push for an all-Protestant kingdom?

 

[GameBawesome]

Is there anyway for a string of Popes in Rome to piss off the Habsburg to an unimaginable degree that they switch to Protestantism to have more influence on their realm?

 

[Kaiser Tito]

Is there anyway for a string of Popes in Rome to piss off the Habsburg to an unimaginable degree that they switch to Protestantism to have more influence on their realm?

What are the odds of another (figurative) Borgia being elected in 1523?

 

[AltoRegnant]

I mean, a lot of conversions at this point were political. if it looked like most of Germany was falling to heresy, then the habsburgs basically have to convert if they want to keep their rule over Germany

 

[Jürgen]

Is there anyway for a string of Popes in Rome to piss off the Habsburg to an unimaginable degree that they switch to Protestantism to have more influence on their realm?

The Pope did piss of Charles V off to such a degree, his solution was to conquer Rome and give his soldier “accidental” month of free looting. I’m pretty sure that if OTL Popes weren’t able to make Charles V convert to Protestantism, you pretty much have to make a Pope a open satanist for him to decide enough is enough,

 

[FouDuRoy]

I’m pretty sure that if OTL Popes weren’t able to make Charles V convert to Protestantism, you pretty much have to make a Pope a open satanist for him to decide enough is enough,

He would still not convert. He would simply burn this pope and have another one elected.

 

[Kaiser Tito]

I mean, a lot of conversions at this point were political. if it looked like most of Germany was falling to heresy, then the habsburgs basically have to convert if they want to keep their rule over Germany

Any chance that the Hapsburgs refuse to convert so the rest of Germany elects, let's say the Hesse, to rule instead?

you pretty much have to make a Pope a open satanist for him to decide enough is enough,

There's a Chick Tracts joke here somewhere.

 

[Evil Crusader]

With a pod after 1521, how can we get the Archduchy of Austria become majority Protestant? Would the local Hapsburgs decide to convert or was there an otl Protestant house to take their place? Would they remain united with Bohemia or were the Hussites too different to reconcile and they still try to separate under denominational differences? Would this Protestant Austria still rule Austria or would control move to the North?

The problem is not getting Austria itself to convert, but the Habsburgs to have political reasons to go with it. Which is really much harder than it seems. Otherwise just drive them away in rebellion and voila, it is done.
The Bohemian domains were linked to Hungary and fell to the Austrians because of pretty specific events in the Balkans we are even discussing in another thread, so that's something the Habsburgs may well be interested in, but is ultimately given or denied by butterflies more than the topic at hand (save for a specific case I will mention later).

So, about political matters. Habsburgs have always cared about their own aggrandizement, pursued in two ways. One was dynastic ties to European royalty; which gave them lottery tickets everywhere, but mostly in places that ended up Catholic, giving them a lot of reasons to lean anti-Protestant and potential ties to people who wanted them to stay Catholic.
The other was that of the Empire. The Habsburgs inherited an Empire that lagged behind others in terms of relative centralization; they tried to remedy that, though mostly in hopes of extending their influence, but they could not really cow their opponents before the religious crisis hit, leaving them forced to side with Catholicism if only because their opponents were Protestants. It didn't help that by 1521 Charles V is already HREmperor, cementing the Hasburgs on the Catholic side unless he radically changes and/or dies on the spot.
Which leaves the situation of 1521 pretty complicated for achieving the triple hammy of Austria protestant and imperially strong; but if you can do that, you probably need a slightly different and more quickly successful Protestantism; especially if the Pope gets abducted or conquered by the French or Ottomans, creating a perfect scenario to redefine the Empire without the Pope and with dangerous/immediate enemies the Emperor can rally people against (instead of having to fight those same people in devastating internal strife) while pushing for more centralization.
Once they do, they're likely to campaign against Bohemia anyways; keep in mind we're before Westphalia, so there's one Church and schismatics are to be brought back, at swordpoint if necessary, something Lutherans definitely shared with Catholics and contributed to the tensions leading to the 30 Years War.

 

[kasumigenx]

Have Miguel da Paz survive or have the Austrian Habsburgs away from the Spanish succession.

 

[Mikestone8]

Unless Habsburgs all go extinct

Which they do if both Charles V and his brother Ferdinand die prior to the birth of their sons in 1527. Requires very bad luck but not impossibly so.

 

[Kaiser Tito]

Which leaves the situation of 1521 pretty complicated for achieving the triple hammy of Austria protestant and imperially strong

Could a weakened Protestant Austria subjugated by the north be possible and if so who do they have controlling the Austrian crown?

 

[Kaiser Tito]

If the Protestant states do manage to overrun Austria, would the Hapsburgs remain in control but subservient to a Protestant king or would they be replaced by a Protestant family?

 

[Jürgen]

If the Protestant states do manage to overrun Austria, would the Hapsburgs remain in control but subservient to a Protestant king or would they be replaced by a Protestant family?

You look at it the wrong way, the question is what the Austrian estates will do. I could see them de facto making Austria into a Lutheran noble republic with the Habsburg archduke being allowed to keep his religion, but his children would be raised in the Lutheran faith. If he won’t take that offer, they likely elect either one of their own or a related foreign dynasty to take over.

 

[Whanztastic]

Not anywhere near ASB since Protestantism was strong in Upper and Lower Austria, especially under Rudolf and Mathais. One possibility would be the failure of the Council of Trent to successfully initiate the Counter-reformation. Specifically for Austria you must keep Ferdinand II confined to Styria or even better butterflied away completely or struck by an insanity ray. With some other dynastic accidents it is entirely possible or even probable.

Yup. Even come the 30 Year’s War, the early stages of the Bohemian revolt saw support in Austria outside of Vienna. The POD here could be one of many listed in the Sealion Press examination of the conflict.

PoDs of the Thirty Years War

By Alex Richards Wallenstein: A Scene of the Thirty Years WarThe Thirty Years War was, in percentage terms at least, the most destructive event in German history, depopulating vast swathes of the country and creating economic devastation that was still being felt in some areas when Napoleon...

www.sealionpress.co.uk

 

[Aenar Sov]

Near ASB?
Unless Habsburgs all go extinct or marry into Protestant dynasties.
Perhaps Philip II converts to Protestantism, convinces Mary to do so too (or Henry VIII convinced his oldest daughter to convert), and they have a child that inherits Austria and starts a Protestant tradition?

Phillip II going protestant is as likely as the Pope becoming pagan.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Phillip II going protestant is as likely as the Pope becoming pagan.

Note how my literal first words in that response was "near ASB"