AHC: Prevent the Treaty of Trianon

The Treaty of Trianon reduced Hungarian territory by 72% following World War I. So, a challenge I wish to put to you AH.com is, find a way to stop this treaty from occurring (alternate ww1 scenario's are accepted so long as the Allies win, though how well they win is up for debate) and leave Hungary with most of its territory (alternate treaties that result in lower territorial losses are also acceptable)

Also, put forward some thoughts on what if any major changes this could have to future events.
 
Its pretty impossible unless you can get a far more competent Hungarian military. I mean the territory controlled by Hungary is just to large to be controlled if the military isn't up to snuff. Now having Hungary regain the territory of Trianon is something Im doing in my timeline, Dead By Dawn. First, Transylvania. Then the world!
 
Its pretty impossible unless you can get a far more competent Hungarian military. I mean the territory controlled by Hungary is just to large to be controlled if the military isn't up to snuff. Now having Hungary regain the territory of Trianon is something Im doing in my timeline, Dead By Dawn. First, Transylvania. Then the world!

Where is this timeline? And is it a Hungary timeline? I've been looking for one of those.
 

MSZ

Banned
Take out Bela Kun and prevent the Hungarian Socilist Republic from waging a civil war that completly depleted what remained of the Hungarian military. That should be enough for whoever gets power in Hungary to negotiate from a position of at least relative strength. In 1918-1919 the Yugoslavian and Czechoslovak militaries are almost non-existentand the Romanian is still below average. The French are unlikely not interfere to push whatever they sought to happen through. Simply existing as a single state might grant the Hungarians support from other Entente powers which may not be interested in its dismemberment - Britain being a first obvious choice, USA if the some Hungarian can get the message to Wilson that there are Hungarians outside the borders Masaryk suggested.

The idea would be to keep the Little Entente out, which given that most of them had other issues at more less the same time could be possible. The idea that the populations of Romanians, Slovaks and Serbs had to revolt the moment Hungary lost the war, and would do so if they were not immiedietly incorporated into the various states has merit of course, but I wouldn't say that whatever they did would be something the Hungarians couldn't handle. Croatia, Slavonia and Vojvodina are lost, but should the Hungarians agree to that early enough, and bring France to a treaty that stipulates that, it might give them grounds to refuse surrendering further territory, thus allowing them to retain more overall.
 

ccdsah

Donor
Take out Bela Kun and prevent the Hungarian Socilist Republic from waging a civil war that completly depleted what remained of the Hungarian military. That should be enough for whoever gets power in Hungary to negotiate from a position of at least relative strength. In 1918-1919 the Yugoslavian and Czechoslovak militaries are almost non-existentand the Romanian is still below average. The French are unlikely not interfere to push whatever they sought to happen through. Simply existing as a single state might grant the Hungarians support from other Entente powers which may not be interested in its dismemberment - Britain being a first obvious choice, USA if the some Hungarian can get the message to Wilson that there are Hungarians outside the borders Masaryk suggested.

The idea would be to keep the Little Entente out, which given that most of them had other issues at more less the same time could be possible. The idea that the populations of Romanians, Slovaks and Serbs had to revolt the moment Hungary lost the war, and would do so if they were not immiedietly incorporated into the various states has merit of course, but I wouldn't say that whatever they did would be something the Hungarians couldn't handle. Croatia, Slavonia and Vojvodina are lost, but should the Hungarians agree to that early enough, and bring France to a treaty that stipulates that, it might give them grounds to refuse surrendering further territory, thus allowing them to retain more overall.

Romanians were promised Transylvania if they entered the war, so they'll probably get it at the Peace conference - it also has a 78% majority of Romanians
 
I'm given to understand that a large portion of Trianon was actually already a fait accompli, with the Allies merely acknowledging and accepting it.
 
Hungary not to face a Trianon in an Entante victory would have to stage an anti Austrian revolt during the WW I.

The problem with the borders of the Kingdom of Hungary is it did not have enough Hungarians to keep those borders.


The situation in 1910 was almost the same
 

MSZ

Banned
Romanians were promised Transylvania if they entered the war, so they'll probably get it at the Peace conference - it also has a 78% majority of Romanians

True, in 1916 by the treaty of Bucharest. But they broke that treaty soon after signing by allying themselves with the Central Powers after the failed Brusilov offensive. For the UK, the treaty was a tactical move and they had little reason to seek to force it through. Note that many Entante allies were promised a lot during the war, and not all of them got what they wanted.

And the 78% Romanian majority is not only questionable, but hardly a decesive factor. Szekely was majority Hungarian, didn't matter when arranging borders.

Best way to prevent Trianon is for the Entente to recognize Hungary not as a aggressive power like Austria, but as a victim and "captive nation" like the Czechs and Slovaks. I think that what doomed the Hugarians was that the country was called Austro-Hungary, implying Hungary had equal status and responsibility for the war to Austria. Change that through some kind of 'Hungarian Comitee' being formed in Paris early on next to the Czechoslovak and Yugoslavian one, and negotiaitions may go very differently.
 
The Slovakian hills, Croatia-Slavonia, and the Voivodinia are all going to be lost in the peace process, but to what size and extent those areas are is up for debate. Further it is possible to find some sort of settlement regarding Transylvania; there were plenty of Hungarians there, and as MSZ stated the Romanians weren't exactly in a position of power to make demands - if the Hungarians had been able to keep their ducks in a row they could have held onto quite a large amount of their territory. They're still going to lose a lot, but it won't be near OTL's levels.
 
Their really is no way for Hungary to retain ALL of Transleithania, or really that terribly much more than modern Hungary for that matter.

In reality the only places Hungary could get were places bordering the Trianon borders, as with the exception of Transylvania (which was to far away and surrounded by large amounts of other Ethnic groups in between), those are really the primary Hungarian area not included in Trianon Hungary.

Now, personally I think the best idea would have been to enlargen Hungary to include as much of the contiguous Hungarian lands as was reasonable (IE not screwing over Slovakia immensely) while turning part or all of Transylvania into a Multi-ethnic state (with a Treaty forbaying it to Unify with Hungary).


The below map(s) show what I mean in terms of my first argument;

ahempireandhungaryslova.png
 
I figure I'll post this here, while making a border for Hungary in the TL I'm working on I ended-up doing what I view as the most realistic OTL expanded Hungarian borders;

Alt. Hungary Overlay.png
 
I figure I'll post this here, while making a border for Hungary in the TL I'm working on I ended-up doing what I view as the most realistic OTL expanded Hungarian borders;

Now add to that Croatia that controls areas where Croats are a majority and you would get probably one of the funkiest looking countries in the world. (reasons why such a state exists can me manyfold :D)
 
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