AHC:PRevent the AMerican "Doltchstosslegende" After the Vietnam war

Sooner or later Hanoi would have had to fight its own battles.... The Americans stopped supporting the South before the Russians stopped supporting the North thus the north won.

Everything the North lost was replaced - this was not he same with the south even if there had not been corruption. The Case-Church amendment prohibited US Military involvement and congress slashed the level of support - which had already effectively been cut due to the October 1973 Oil price rises.

If anybody can claim to have been sold out its the South.....

And that claim ultimately is bullshit because South Korea can and did fight its own battles. Saigon, put to the same test, still needed the USA to hold its hands. No dice.
 

Orry

Donor
Monthly Donor
And that claim ultimately is bullshit because South Korea can and did fight its own battles. Saigon, put to the same test, still needed the USA to hold its hands. No dice.

Remind me when the last American troops got pulled out of South Korea?

It took a while for the South Korean economy to become self sufficient - time that South Vietnam never got.

Would there still be a South Korea if the Americans had pulled out in 1953 when the armestice was signed?
 
Remind me when the last American troops got pulled out of South Korea?

It took a while for the South Korean economy to become self sufficient - time that South Vietnam never got.

Would there still be a South Korea if the Americans had pulled out in 1953 when the armestice was signed?

In the 1960s when North Korea launched a major assault at South Korea, South Korea was able to kick North Korea's ass and the North never did that again. Every single time that Hanoi struck Saigon, the Saigon Keystone Kops fled. And none of this is relevant to the OP, as it's precisely the Dolchstosslegende it's asking how to PREVENT. Not to REHASH.
 

Orry

Donor
Monthly Donor
In the 1960s when North Korea launched a major assault at South Korea, South Korea was able to kick North Korea's ass and the North never did that again. Every single time that Hanoi struck Saigon, the Saigon Keystone Kops fled. And none of this is relevant to the OP, as it's precisely the Dolchstosslegende it's asking how to PREVENT. Not to REHASH.

Its as relevant as your post that I to which I responded.

added

And the North Korean actions in the late 1960's came 10 years after the end of major fighting. South Korea had 10 years to build up time that South Vietnam never had
 
Its as relevant as your post that I to which I responded.

On the contrary, it's quite relevant to the issue of whether or not the US military was stabbed in the back by the Washington Criminals whether the USA was defending a regime that could stand on its own or be expected to infinitely waste money and resources needed elsewhere to save a bunch of feckless thugs.

I mean it's worth reflecting here that even in 1950 when the ROK (which, after all, had no heavy artillery or balanced combined-arms forces) faced the KPA in pure clashes of infantry, the ROK dealt immense losses to the KPA and even won battles. When the ROK was smashed by the PLA, the PLA had likewise the ability to defeat the more heavily armed and armored US forces of the Korean War so it's not just the ROK with some explaining to do. Saigon, by comparison, NEVER MANAGED THIS ON ITS OWN.

So, again, this is irrelevant in any sense except perpetuating the idea that the US military was stabbed in the back by politicians. Because we all know that the US Army can't lose wars, it can only be stabbed in the back. Just like the Germans. :rolleyes:
 
On the contrary, it's quite relevant to the issue of whether or not the US military was stabbed in the back by the Washington Criminals whether the USA was defending a regime that could stand on its own or be expected to infinitely waste money and resources needed elsewhere to save a bunch of feckless thugs.

I mean it's worth reflecting here that even in 1950 when the ROK (which, after all, had no heavy artillery or balanced combined-arms forces) faced the KPA in pure clashes of infantry, the ROK dealt immense losses to the KPA and even won battles. When the ROK was smashed by the PLA, the PLA had likewise the ability to defeat the more heavily armed and armored US forces of the Korean War so it's not just the ROK with some explaining to do. Saigon, by comparison, NEVER MANAGED THIS ON ITS OWN.

So, again, this is irrelevant in any sense except perpetuating the idea that the US military was stabbed in the back by politicians. Because we all know that the US Army can't lose wars, it can only be stabbed in the back. Just like the Germans. :rolleyes:
Snake, you are right, but the following cannot be stated enough.

The Art of War
He will win, who knows when to fight and when not to.
He will win, who knows how to handle superior and inferior forces.
He will win, whose army is animated by the same spirit throughout all its ranks.
He will win, who, prepared himself, wants to take the enemy unprepared.
He will win, whose military capacity is not interfered with by the sovereign.


The U.S> flunked five out of five, and rather spectacularly, I might add.

Of course, as you mentioned it's very hard to win a war when your ally i a rtten t othe core irredeemably corrupt comically inept and feckessly stupid regime that cannot and will not wage it's own war.

Ever!

We pulled out in 73 because Nixon realized that the shocking fecklesslly corrupt and crimminally moronic regime in Saigon was NEVER going to fight it's own war.

I still like your description of Saigon as an entire regime of Sacha Baren Cohen charecters.
 
I came back from the VA today and switched on AMC and what did I see?

Why it was Rambo: FIrst Blood part two hammering home the "Dolchstiss legende good and hard with it's plotline of good honorable Soldiers (Tautmann and Rambo and the designated POW charecter) betrayed and "Stabbed i nthe back" by the faitless politicians"(Murdoch)

Movies like R;FBP2 and Chuck Norris' MIA series as well as others made sure the "Dolchstosslegende was firmly ingrained into the popular American zeigeist.

To a large extent, even the first film, "First BLood" is based in a large part on hammering home the Doltchstosslegende.

John J. Rambo a special forces Soldier and decorated war hero from the VIetnam Conflict comes home and learns of the ignominous death of the last of his Spec Ops Black Ops team.

He is then accosted by civilian authority with neither cause not mercy nor the slightest shred of understanding or gratitude.

The Sherriff's men bully and harrass and abuse John mercilessly untill he lashes out.

The rest of the film becomes an allegory of the war itself combined with the Dolchstosslegende as Rambo evades and wounds and bedevils Sherriff Teasle and his men and the Oregon National GUard.

Over and over the theme is repeated.

"We could have won if it had not been for incompatent leaders and faithless ungrateful civilians."

The very epitome of the German Doltchstosslegende as it was propogated and repeated after the First WOrld War in the defeated Germany.
 
Last edited:
Top