Imagine the disaster of an Aaron Burr presidency. What do you think an Aaron Burr presidency would look like for his first term? Would he even get a second term, and, if so, what do you think that would look like?
AHC: President Aaron Burr
- Thread starter VirginiaHistoryTeacher
- Start date
He'd probably alienate everyone and be removed from office after he tries to do something stupid, like, sell Maine. Consider both Hamilton and Jefferson didn't like the guy, no doubt they've form another ad hoc alliance to get him out of office (kind of how they formed one to make Washington run again in 1792).
Then he can just be the King of Louisiana. MOAR POWAR.
You know it's pure insanity when Jefferson and Hamilton join forces for most anything.
Especially when Hamilton voted for Jefferson in 1800 to keep Burr out of the top office.,
Especially when Hamilton voted for Jefferson in 1800 to keep Burr out of the top office.,
All other things being equal, would Burr have been the absolute craziest president in pre-Jacksonian America?
King? I see no King, I only see President-Dictator-For-Life Burr!
Yeah 1800 is your best bet. He might be able to avoid impeachment then he'd have to head west.
And it's really an easy POD to have. One of the New York electors cast both of his votes for Aaron Burr, and the state changed one of them to Thomas Jefferson because you couldn't double up like that. All he had to do was cast his second vote for anyone else on the planet...or just spoil it. Then Burr would have 73 votes, Jefferson would have 72 and their positions would be reversed.
Terrifying prospect. I wonder how that would've set things up for the War of 1812.
Good Lord!
He'll be at war soon. Or busy planning to defect.
He
1, Was an unscrupulous bastard.
2, Tried to steal the election of 1800 from Thomas Jefferson
3, Shot Alexander Hamilton while Vice President
4, Orginized an attempt to break away the West from the USA
5, Got off Scott free for #4
Good Lord!
He'll be at war soon. Or busy planning to defect.
He
1, Was an unscrupulous bastard.
2, Tried to steal the election of 1800 from Thomas Jefferson
3, Shot Alexander Hamilton while Vice President
4, Orginized an attempt to break away the West from the USA
5, Got off Scott free for #4
For our European friend, point number 1 of this is actually not opinion. It's documented fact. To put it in analagous terms, Aaron Burr was the kid in the cafeteria at school who sat by himself, not to get you to feel sorry for him, but because he would fart ON people as they walked by, spit on them if they looked at him, and throw food in peoples' eyes and hair if they got to close to him. He was the bully that everyone hated but the administration wouldn't deal with for a long time.
And then the Virginia and Pennsylvania militias, and perhaps several others, would march into Washington DC and force them to make Jefferson President.
This isn't really 100% true. Was he kind of a huge asshole? Yes. Did he fart and spit and people? Probably. Did he have a lot of stupid ideas? Absolutely. Do I still refuse to bank with Chase Manhattan, the private bank he started through deceit to subvert the national bank? You betcha. But he did have some bright ideas, and he's not the madman propaganda makes him out to be. He had plenty of political allies, and forged Tammany Hall into the first political machine. In many ways, he was a visionary. He started a lot of the unsavory political practices that mobilized the Democratic-Republicans, revolutionized American politics, and continue to haunt us today. OK, yeah, you got me. Burr was an unscrupulous bastard.
Silly me. Here I was thinking that a man who supported women's suffrage and actually fought hard to end slavery in his home state (unlike say Jefferson, Madison, Monroe etc.) might have had some good points. Indeed, he's conniving and Machiavellian, but so was Alexander Hamilton and it's not like people feel a need to compare him to Beavis and Butthead.
Would Burr probably have been worse than Jefferson(especially considering how he would have been elected)?
Yes.
Would he have been the evil love child of Napoleon and a Will Ferrell movie?
Probably not.
. Indeed, he's conniving and Machiavellian, but so was Alexander Hamilton and it's not like people feel a need to compare him to Beavis and Butthead. Would Burr probably have been worse than Jefferson(especially considering how he would have been elected)?
Yes.
Would he have been the evil love child of Napoleon and a Will Ferrell movie?
Probably not.
Silly me. Here I was thinking that a man who supported women's suffrage and actually fought hard to end slavery in his home state (unlike say Jefferson, Madison, Monroe etc.) might have had some good points
Would Burr probably have been worse than Jefferson(especially considering how he would have been elected)?
Yes.
Would he have been the evil love child of Napoleon and a Will Ferrell movie?
Probably not.
About the Abolishing slavery part……he wasn't so keen in it when recruiting out west. I'll concede the point about women though.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Hitler helped to lay the groundwork for the Autobahn, if I remember correctly. Burr is no Hitler, but he's also no gentleman statesman.
"Imagine the disaster"? really? And you're a history teacher?
Burr had to be cajoled and bribed into running for President by Jefferson because the latter needed a northern running mate and Burr was simply the northerner who distrusted him least. When the vote was a tie, Jefferson threatened to march on DC with a mob (excuse me, militia) if he wasn't installed as President while Burr waited in his New York residence for word from the Capitol, refusing correspondence with anyone but official government couriers and making no statements until the House had tallied and recorded the votes. Jefferson was the President who tried to impeach every Federalist justice for the high crime of disagreeing with him, and Burr the man who ensured acquittals by sticking to accepted rules of evidence and courtroom decorum.
He would have made the Louisiana Purchase just as Jefferson - because no man wouldn't - and that would have guaranteed him a second term. He would have started the war with Britain in 1807 over Leopard and Chesapeake, and sought a third term (the charges of arrogance are true enough), but 1907 is a much more favorable time than 1812 for the USA to have that fight; the question is not whether he gets a second term, it's whether he gets a fourth. All the while using the bully pulpit to argue for women's rights and against slavery. He isn't leaving office until somebody beats him, and that...won't be easy. Unfortunately, he WILL be looking for something to top the war with Britain, so that probably is the time he needs to be retired. In short, he'd have likely made a better President than Jefferson ever hoped to be. We may even be treated to the fantastic (to us) spectacle of a sitting President leading troops from the front.
Yes, he executed Hamilton - apparently for libel against his daughter, in full compliance with the law, with Hamilton's active cooperation and acknowledgement that he deserved it. And if Jefferson, using all the tools available to him as President, failed to put together a case against Burr that could satisfy a jury of his peers (and he assuredly did fail at that) perhaps it's just one more case of Jefferson not letting petty things like facts or evidence impede him? Wilkerson attempted mutiny and treason. Burr's participation was an allegation the court did not sustain despite enormous outside pressure to do so.
Burr is arrogant and manipulative; and Heaven help us all when he gets bored. But he is so much more competent and civic minded than Jefferson it's ridiculous.
Burr had to be cajoled and bribed into running for President by Jefferson because the latter needed a northern running mate and Burr was simply the northerner who distrusted him least. When the vote was a tie, Jefferson threatened to march on DC with a mob (excuse me, militia) if he wasn't installed as President while Burr waited in his New York residence for word from the Capitol, refusing correspondence with anyone but official government couriers and making no statements until the House had tallied and recorded the votes. Jefferson was the President who tried to impeach every Federalist justice for the high crime of disagreeing with him, and Burr the man who ensured acquittals by sticking to accepted rules of evidence and courtroom decorum.
He would have made the Louisiana Purchase just as Jefferson - because no man wouldn't - and that would have guaranteed him a second term. He would have started the war with Britain in 1807 over Leopard and Chesapeake, and sought a third term (the charges of arrogance are true enough), but 1907 is a much more favorable time than 1812 for the USA to have that fight; the question is not whether he gets a second term, it's whether he gets a fourth. All the while using the bully pulpit to argue for women's rights and against slavery. He isn't leaving office until somebody beats him, and that...won't be easy. Unfortunately, he WILL be looking for something to top the war with Britain, so that probably is the time he needs to be retired. In short, he'd have likely made a better President than Jefferson ever hoped to be. We may even be treated to the fantastic (to us) spectacle of a sitting President leading troops from the front.
Yes, he executed Hamilton - apparently for libel against his daughter, in full compliance with the law, with Hamilton's active cooperation and acknowledgement that he deserved it. And if Jefferson, using all the tools available to him as President, failed to put together a case against Burr that could satisfy a jury of his peers (and he assuredly did fail at that) perhaps it's just one more case of Jefferson not letting petty things like facts or evidence impede him? Wilkerson attempted mutiny and treason. Burr's participation was an allegation the court did not sustain despite enormous outside pressure to do so.
Burr is arrogant and manipulative; and Heaven help us all when he gets bored. But he is so much more competent and civic minded than Jefferson it's ridiculous.
ManintheField
Banned
More competent? Maybe.
More civic minded? What? Than the Numa of the White House? You're kidding, right?
More civic minded? What? Than the Numa of the White House? You're kidding, right?
Stolengood
Banned
Really? You had to Godwin this thread?
Let me introduce you to the facts, previously posted by Shawn Endresen:
...now, Mr. Virginia History Teacher, are you going to admit your biases or not? It is a little ridiculous, considering the rhetoric you've been using, to try and take your claims seriously. (My apologies if my tone is too much.)