AHC: Post WWII British Rail Diesels

Yet Another "Bolt finds a page on Wikipedia and creates a thread about it"

What would it take to get British Rail to bring in diesels (or even electric trains) following World War Two, earlier than OTL. Preferably in lieu of the standardised classes.
 
It’s an interesting question, steam was very much a dead end but there were a lot of loco engineers wedded to steam.

I think a lot of it is due to inertia in general in the UK at that time. Hell even the electrification that was done in the 1940’s was the wrong type and was later abandoned or replaced.
 
We would have ended up with the disaster that was the Modernisation Plan 10 years earlier.

The only advantage is that there might have been less classes because diesel tech was still fairly weak and that because the railways were broke, they might have actually only ordered one or two prototypes of each class not shitloads of them. we would probably seen a lot more local hauled and a lot less dmu's, because well, DMU's were things like the GWR railcars and the Flying Hamburger, not really suburban or regional units. There again, if someone had brought back a SVT 137 things might be different.

However, it would have stuffed non third rail electrification until the 1970's just because of the costs.

And Western Region would have done something different to everywhere else because Swindon is always gonna Swindon.
 

Devvy

Donor
I'd agree with Ian; you'd just get the Modernisation mess earlier if you introduce diesels. The expertise just wasn't there in the UK rail system to introduce them successfully, and the 4 way division of BR guarantees duplication of pointless work.

The only way I can see a successful introduction of diesel power is later on, with a phased introduction allowing BR to gain skills in diesel loco construction, and some kind of forced harmonisation across the 4 sectors to create locomotives which can/will be used nationwide rather then each sector making their own mini breeds. BR politics interfere with that though :(

Electrification is more interesting; BR lent towards 1,500v DC before the mid 1950s as 25kv AC was far from a perfected and reliable technology until then. There's numerous consequences of that choice.
 
During the War, US ships over EMD and Alco Diesels to solve motive power shortages since the shops were doing War Work.

They like how little maintenance and low operating cost the EMD FT and Alco RS require, as well as their versatility, and pay the Lend Lease cost rather than return/destroy at War's end.

After Nationalization, is announced that new Freight and Road Switchers diesel classes will be built to replace the worn out war service steamers, and will be powered with the new more powerful Napier Deltic than licensing the US EMD 567 or Alco 539 motors
 
Yet Another "Bolt finds a page on Wikipedia and creates a thread about it"

What would it take to get British Rail to bring in diesels (or even electric trains) following World War Two, earlier than OTL. Preferably in lieu of the standardised classes.

Well there was a plan mooted at the 1923 grouping to convert the Crewe to Carlisle section of the WCML to overhead electric, on a similar model to Swiss railways. But it was never even seriously considered by the LMSR going forwards. I think you really need a pre-war POD for earlier conversion to diesel traction, the problem is the inherent conservatism of Britain's railways that made any change very difficult, a lot of the practices of the Steam era continued even after the conversion to diesel traffic.
 
Well there was a plan mooted at the 1923 grouping to convert the Crewe to Carlisle section of the WCML to overhead electric, on a similar model to Swiss railways. But it was never even seriously considered by the LMSR going forwards. I think you really need a pre-war POD for earlier conversion to diesel traction, the problem is the inherent conservatism of Britain's railways that made any change very difficult, a lot of the practices of the Steam era continued even after the conversion to diesel traffic.
There was a detailed plan to electrify the NER main line at 1500V DC which went as far as to build a prototype 100mph electric locomotive and had detailed scheme plans produced, including Signalling (line speed enchantments and immunisation) which even in 1921 was a third of the total cost. The Grouping of 1923 killed it off though.
 
Yet Another "Bolt finds a page on Wikipedia and creates a thread about it"

What would it take to get British Rail to bring in diesels (or even electric trains) following World War Two, earlier than OTL. Preferably in lieu of the standardised classes.
I can't help with diesels, but might be able to with electrification. How early can the POD be?
 
There was a detailed plan to electrify the NER main line at 1500V DC which went as far as to build a prototype 100mph electric locomotive and had detailed scheme plans produced, including Signalling (line speed enchantments and immunisation) which even in 1921 was a third of the total cost. The Grouping of 1923 killed it off though.
The NER's York to Newcastle Scheme of 1919 is the tip of the iceberg. The Search Engine at the National Railway Museum has a boxful of electrification plans prepared by the pre-grouping companies, the "Big Four," and British Rail. The Tyne and Wear Archives have many electrification studies prepared by Mertz and McLellan for the railway companies. Plus there was the Weir Report.
 
I've always had a low opinion of the Modernisation Plan diesels - with a few honourable exceptions (Deltics at least), generally either under-powered, overweight or unreliable, and in some cases all three. Sometimes (40 v. A4/A1 or Coronation), not capable of the same peak performances as the steam locomotives they were intended to replace (though to be fair, easier to drive and probably more consistent, but it's interesting to read the disappointment expressed by some experienced performance loggers - I particularly recall Cecil J. Allen being surprised at the first 40 on the GER not being up to a good Britannia).

I've always liked the idea of a BR that electrified more and earlier and kept steam longer on peripheral routes, as happened in, say, Germany (it would have kept me train spotting beyond twelve), with any development of diesels preceded by careful design and testing that might (though probably wouldn't) have given British constructors something that could compete with US product. When @iainbhx did his railrover tour of a current no-Beeching BR, I started something similar set in the mid 70s in my high-oil price no diesels ATL, but never finished or posted it.
 
Quick afterthought to my previous post (rather than editing), in my universe there would still be diesel shunters (can be switched on and off easily in yards where continuous use isn't needed) and DMUs (can have a better power-to-weight ratio than a loco and coaches on lines with minimal traffic).

And I still think the Isle of Wight would be better off converting back to steam today (using new build BR class 2 2-6-2Ts, also ideal for heritage lines). It would attract tourists from all over the world to see a real steam operated railway, and who needs to get anywhere that quickly on the IoW? ;)
 
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