AHC: post-1975 Jehovah Witnesses split in more liberal direction?

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And from my own city of Houston, Texas, here’s Victoria and Joel Osteen! No, they aren’t Witnesses, but they’re an example of running a ministry of encouragement, rather than discouragement and judgment.

Actually, I’m a little burned at Joel these days, not so much because he was slow to help his fellow citizens of Houston in the aftermath of Hurricane Harvey (Sept. 2017). But rather because he gave such a lousy and seemingly pretend justification after the fact. At least it seemed that way to me. And as part of the co-ministry, I guess I’m a little burned at Victoria, too.

Now, on the subject of leadership . . . . . we might rhapsodize that we'd rather have a grass roots movement in which we're all leaders and that we all encourage and teach other. But in the real world, whether business, medicine, education, science, government, religion, etc, etc, often it takes energetic leaders who are merely good-enough listeners . . . . . in order to get things done!
 
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youtube: Former Jehovahs' Witness testimony

This man was formerly an elder and worked at Bethel. Please see 2:50 into the video. Antwan is saying how he went through a bad ordeal, his wife had certain medical ailments, his son was having a hard time in school. And he wanted to step aside as an elder and give more time to his family.

And this didn't sit well with his friends and the other elders.

Antwan decided to increase his faith and spend more time with his family. He started studying the Bible apart from the JW literature. And it sounds like he became much more of a mainstream Christian. And he's speaking to a small, appreciative group here who seem very familiar with JW terms, perhaps former JWs themselves? And so, Antwan might be an example of someone who could have been a leader in the 1970s if the time frame had just been a little different.

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Now, admittedly, Antwan expresses skepticism toward the 1914 date, but he does not mention the 1975 date in the video.
 
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youtube: Loyalty to Watchtower rewarded with Punishment - JW.Org

Marc tells the story of Charles de Wilda who worked at Bethel from shortly after WWI for four decades until the 1950s. As a Bethel worker, Charlie was not allowed to get married which he resented. And when President Knorr married a sister, Charlie told him that he had broken his own rule and ought to resign.

Charlie was ostracized within the organization and when he quit, other members would sometimes give him money. President Knorr told members not to do this and even wrote letters to this effect to nearby congregations. Charlie, elderly and maybe somewhat senile, ended up dying on a park bench. These happenings are tragic, preposterous, ridiculous, comedic, theater of the absurd, all of that rolled into one.

Please see 9:40 into the video in which Marc is saying, there's no love in it.

And he goes on to talk about how Jesus said people would know his disciples by their love for each other.

Marc and his wife Cora are former JWs, now more mainstream Christians, who frankly encourage people to leave the organization.

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if Marc and Cora had been active in the late 1970s . . . . . well, one just never knows
 
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SsgtC

Banned
As a Bethel worker, he was not allowed to get married which he resented. And when President Knorr married a sister, Charlie told him he had broken his own rule and ought to resign.
That's actually not true. They are allowed to marry. However, there are times when you may be asked to leave Bethel if you do. This is usually the case when one of you is not already volunteering there. They are very selective about who is allowed to serve at Bethel. And at that time, very few women were allowed as the vast majority of the work was heavy physical labor. I'm not saying they were right to do that, obviously. Just saying that there's probably a lot more to this than he's letting on
 
. . . Just saying that there's probably a lot more to this than he's letting on
Agree with this point. Plus, could well be the case that Charlie was at times hard to work with.

All the same, letting an elderly, perhaps somewhat senile man die on a park bench, that would be hard for JW leadership to explain away. These kind of personal injustice stories often have the most legs of all.
 


In a 1975 episode of the Mary Tyler Moore show, a very inexperienced Rev. Chatfield (John Ritter in his tennis whites!) performs an impromptu marriage ceremony for Ted and Georgette.

light-touch and respectful use of religion in comedy
 
. . . and if there was similar light-touch and respectful use of Jehovah Witnesses in a TV show

People do find the method and practice where JWs go and knock on doors in neighborhoods to be humorous. A JW couple who was friends with a major character in a late '70s, early '80s major sitcom could have been there.*

And this light-touch good side of Jehovah Witnesses could have contrasted with the overbearing, critical way elders sometimes treat people. That could have primed members to be more open to a liberal, breakaway church which doesn't treat people in this fashion. Especially since most JWs would presumably have no problem watching a sitcom (perhaps privately or sneakily!) where they're a minor character treated in a respectful way. Comedy is sometimes given more of an in than serious stuff.

*the hardcore Witnesses believe they should be friends only with fellow Witnesses, and as I understand hardcore parents or church elders often use greater or lesser pressure to push this approach to life
 
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There was another episode of Mary Tyler Moore in which the whole WJM news crew was snowed in and Ted Baxter, in order to fill air time, interviewed a Catholic priest in his own inimitable style! :) If anyone could help me find that, I'd appreciate it.

Or, would anyone care to tell us what's possibly the most famous use of light-touch religious humor on the show?
 
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The Chuckles the Clown episode!

Off-stage Chuckles dies at the circus while dressed as a peanut by being stampeded by a rogue elephant. Murray the writer says some jokes which Mary thinks are very inappropriate. But by the funeral at the end of the episode, the humor of the situation and the eulogy by a rather stilted reverend get the better of her!


youtube: Laugh for Chuckles, 4 minutes at the end

"Chuckles Bites the Dust" Sat. night, Oct. 25, 1975

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Amazing light use of religion for comedy!
 
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