AHC: Portuguese Siberia

What it says on the box. Portugal must have control or heavy influence over at least 50% of the area between the Urals and Kamchatka. Bonus points for not making it an extension of a Portuguese Japan.
 
What it says on the box. Portugal must have control or heavy influence over at least 50% of the area between the Urals and Kamchatka. Bonus points for not making it an extension of a Portugues Japan.

1. 5000 B.C. The Portuguese people, native to the Ural mountains and speakers of the Uralic tongue, begin to spread east of the Urals and south.
2. 0 B.C. The Portuguese people encompass northern Russia and Central Asia.
3. 1000 A.D. The various tribes of Portugal west of the Lisbon(Lena) river have consolidated into one confederation.
4. 1100 A.D. Unlike its Buddhist neighbours at the south, the Portuguese accept Islam as their religion.
5. 1200 A.D. Chinghiz Khan allies with the Portuguese when attacking Russia and, eventually, Europe.
6. 1600 A.D. Russian explorers are continually pushed back by the Portuguese from Siberia.
7. 1800 A.D. Massive, 50 year-long campaign from the Ural mountains to the Pacific Ocean waged by the Russian Empire in an effort to finally destroy the Portuguese confederation; succeeds.
8. 1900 A.D. Massive riots occur in all Portuguese-dominant regions, but violently suppressed.
9. 1930 A.D. Recognised as the Portuguese Autonomous Soviet of the Far East; territory encompasses all northern territories, from the northern tip of the Urals to the Kamchatka Sea.
10. 2000 A.D. Fall of Soviet Union brings about Portuguese Independence Party, latest referendum sees rising pro-independence sentiment within Siberia to 45%.
 
What it says on the box. Portugal must have control or heavy influence over at least 50% of the area between the Urals and Kamchatka. Bonus points for not making it an extension of a Portuguese Japan.

See my response below.

1. 5000 B.C. The Portuguese people, native to the Ural mountains and speakers of the Uralic tongue, begin to spread east of the Urals and south.
2. 0 B.C. The Portuguese people encompass northern Russia and Central Asia.
3. 1000 A.D. The various tribes of Portugal west of the Lisbon(Lena) river have consolidated into one confederation.
4. 1100 A.D. Unlike its Buddhist neighbours at the south, the Portuguese accept Islam as their religion.
5. 1200 A.D. Chinghiz Khan allies with the Portuguese when attacking Russia and, eventually, Europe.
6. 1600 A.D. Russian explorers are continually pushed back by the Portuguese from Siberia.
7. 1800 A.D. Massive, 50 year-long campaign from the Ural mountains to the Pacific Ocean waged by the Russian Empire in an effort to finally destroy the Portuguese confederation; succeeds.
8. 1900 A.D. Massive riots occur in all Portuguese-dominant regions, but violently suppressed.
9. 1930 A.D. Recognised as the Portuguese Autonomous Soviet of the Far East; territory encompasses all northern territories, from the northern tip of the Urals to the Kamchatka Sea.
10. 2000 A.D. Fall of Soviet Union brings about Portuguese Independence Party, latest referendum sees rising pro-independence sentiment within Siberia to 45%.

Lulz. :D:p

Anyway, to respond to the OP's question, I'm afraid that this is virtually ASB without some truly massive changes to the world as we knew it.
 
1. 5000 B.C. The Portuguese people, native to the Ural mountains and speakers of the Uralic tongue, begin to spread east of the Urals and south.
2. 0 B.C. The Portuguese people encompass northern Russia and Central Asia.
3. 1000 A.D. The various tribes of Portugal west of the Lisbon(Lena) river have consolidated into one confederation.
4. 1100 A.D. Unlike its Buddhist neighbours at the south, the Portuguese accept Islam as their religion.
5. 1200 A.D. Chinghiz Khan allies with the Portuguese when attacking Russia and, eventually, Europe.
6. 1600 A.D. Russian explorers are continually pushed back by the Portuguese from Siberia.
7. 1800 A.D. Massive, 50 year-long campaign from the Ural mountains to the Pacific Ocean waged by the Russian Empire in an effort to finally destroy the Portuguese confederation; succeeds.
8. 1900 A.D. Massive riots occur in all Portuguese-dominant regions, but violently suppressed.
9. 1930 A.D. Recognised as the Portuguese Autonomous Soviet of the Far East; territory encompasses all northern territories, from the northern tip of the Urals to the Kamchatka Sea.
10. 2000 A.D. Fall of Soviet Union brings about Portuguese Independence Party, latest referendum sees rising pro-independence sentiment within Siberia to 45%.

Civilization V, eat your heart out.
 
Maybe if Russia never expanded westwards, and some sort of Momgol-Chinese Dynasty expanded there instead, and Portugal fought it in the the 19th century, they would take Siberia and Korea.
 

birdboy2000

Banned
Someone's been playing EU4. Or maybe EU3, since I haven't seen Portugal win that race in EU4 nearly as often.

I don't think it's implausible for them to take an interest if they beat the Russians to the Far East, though half of Siberia's a pipe dream. But the Portuguese of the era were traders par excellence, and fur a hot commodity - but it's a long way from Siberia to Timor or Macau.

It's getting them there that's the hard part. Because that requires not being booted out of most of Asia by the Netherlands. And keeping Japan friendly, both as a market and as somewhere to dock - keeping rights in Nagasaki at a minimum. And probably the Yakuts under Tygyn keeping the Russians out instead of gladly inviting them in - they probably do more to delay Russian settlement than prevent it outright, but if Portugal rolls a few 20s that might be enough to get them a piece.

By which I mean some fur trading posts on the sea of Okhtotsk, which at best give them a small slice of the Russian Far East, especially the parts more easily supplied by sea than over land, especially if the Tsar is cautious about the prospect of warring over it. 50% of Siberia is absurd. 10% is pushing it.
 
There was a big struggle for trade rights in the White Sea during the 16th Century - so the first step would be to find some way for the Tsars to fail to lock down the area. Then, find a way that the Portuguese out-compete the English and Dutch. After that, it gets easier, as a fur-trading empire in Northern Eurasia would naturally be drawn East into Siberia.

More likely a Tsarist failure to enforce their authority over the Pomors would result in an English or Dutch Siberia than a Portuguese Siberia though...

My last thought is that Portuguese/Pomor hybrid culture would be quite interesting.

fasquardon
 
Spain never funds Columbus, and stays bogged down in the Reconquista, trying to take North Africa after Iberia is cleared of Muslims.

Portugal is the sole power going out and south. Portugal ends up owning most of south america, and using the wealth to build up its navy enough to keep the Dutch out. They take/vassalize Ceylon, several Indian states, then some Indonesian sultanates, continuing north to Johannia (otl Philippines, after João instead of Felipe), then Japan and Korea which are vassalized.

Using Korea as a base, they move into Manchuria, and then lay claim to all Siberia, although their hold is pretty weak.
 
Spain never funds Columbus, and stays bogged down in the Reconquista, trying to take North Africa after Iberia is cleared of Muslims.

Portugal is the sole power going out and south. Portugal ends up owning most of south america, and using the wealth to build up its navy enough to keep the Dutch out. They take/vassalize Ceylon, several Indian states, then some Indonesian sultanates, continuing north to Johannia (otl Philippines, after João instead of Felipe), then Japan and Korea which are vassalized.

Using Korea as a base, they move into Manchuria, and then lay claim to all Siberia, although their hold is pretty weak.

I don't think my country would be able to accomplish half of what you are saying. Let's go by parts:
  • Spain getting bogged down in the Reconquista. I don't see how it would happen as later on Granada was so weak it was virtually impossible for Castille/Spain not to conquer them eventually. Earlier PoDs bogging down the Reconquista would end up hurting Portugal as much as Spain.
  • Take all of South America. Again two things first we lack the population to colonize an entire continent as vast as South America. Brazil as it is was not even fully colonized at the time of its indepedence and neither were its Neighbours. However I could see an arguement for a bigger Portuguese presence in South America encompassing not only OTL Portuguese Brazil but also Rio de La Plata. However don't expect us to conquer the Incas that is simple not happening as unlike Spain we are more oriented for trade than conquest.
  • Take/Vassalize Ceylon. Happened in OTL so entirely possible.
  • Several Indian States. More likely we would continue doing the whole take Coastal possessions although who knows in the long run.
  • Indonesia. Again possible.
  • Vassalize Japan/Korda. Totally impossible at this point. Don't even bother
 
When I say 'bog down in Reconquista', i mean trying to retake all of North Africa. Starting with Morocco and heading east, ethnically cleansing/forcibly converting every new country they conquer. I dont mean bogging down in Iberia.

As for manpower, I imagine the could get settlers from many places, AND they could make use of mestizos.

As for India, yes I was thinking a few coastal city/states.

Japan and Korea would be tough, especially both, but if Portugal has a momopoly on the spice trade, and the population is booming due to immigration and natural growth, it's probably possible. Especially if they raise native troops every place they conquer to conquer the next.

Highly, highly improbable. Yes. Barely possible? Maybe.
 
A Romanov heiress marries a Bragança prince... that's about all I got

Well there was talk of Anna Ivanovna marrying D. Manuel de Bragança. He even went to St.Petersburg to court said lady. She liked Biron more so she gave him a nice fur coat and sent him back to Vienna/Lisbon.
 

GdwnsnHo

Banned
Portugal manages to conquer significant parts of Andalusia during the Reconquista, politically manoeuvring around Castille, Leon and Aragon.

After extending the Reconquista to N.Africa much earlier than OTL (i.e. Tangiers, Fez, Marrakech) Portugal sees itself as the Western Bulwark of Christianity in much the same way as the ERE did.

Eventually navigates politics and war to unite all the Christian Kingdoms of Iberia into Portugal.

Mongol invasions go incredibly well - whilst deflected by the ERE, the Mongols charge across Europe, forming a new Khanate that stretches to the Pyrenees, where the Portugese defend against the Mongols with reinforcements from their N.African Territories.

The European Khanate for some reasons declares itself Muslim, beginning the emergence of a common Catholic identity for the Europeans who don't convert and stay the majority.

The Khanate throws the Pope out of Rome, who seeks refuge in Portugal, eventually becoming a Patriarch of Santiago (Or whateva).

After a significant succession crisis the European Khanate collapses into dozens of smaller Khanates - Creating an opportunity for the ERE and Portugese to seize territory.

In a treaty between the Portugese and Romans, Europe is split along the Alpine/Danube/Libyan borders with Portugal being accepted as WRE. This coincides with a union between the Catholic and Orthodox clergy that accepts that the filoque is not enough to cause division - after all, Muslims and Mongols.

Romans take OTL Hungary and Italy, whilst supporting Portugal in their reconquest of the Frankish Khanate, and later the German Khanate.

Whilst the ERE focuses on reconquering Egypt, and expanding into Mesopotamia, the Portugese WRE Expands into the Polish Khanate, later extending their rule throughout the Baltics and OTL British Isles.

Acknowledging the difficulties in ruling the territories, the WRE and ERE jointly found the North Roman Empire (NRE) - a state in the Modern Russias, with the WRE sacrificing the Baltics, and the ERE Sacrificing control over Taurica.

Dominated by a Greco-Roman-Portugese nobility that identifies as Christians, it is supported to settle and dominate OTL Russias upto the Urals.

The NRE expands over the Urals when the WRE conquers the New World, and the ERE happily dominates South Africa, East Africa, and the East Indian Trade.



Yes - it is utterly bonkers, and details galore are being ignored - but that is about as close as I think you'll get to your aim. It'll be partially Portugese, which in this world would be even more "Bring the Lord to the Heathen, Crusade, Rah-Rah-Rah"

The PoDs would need to explain

1) How Portugal dominated S.Iberia successfully.
2) How the Mongols Kicked European ass to the Atlantic
3) Why it was a Muslim Khanate
4) How the Schism was resolved alongside the reformation of a 'Christian Roman Federation' of sorts
5) Why the WRE went west (Economic war with the ERE? Discovery of EPIC FISHING in the Grand Banks? Lucky Discovery exploring West Africa?)
 

Banzai Bob

Banned
Portugal stumbles on the New World some 40 years before Columbus, the king of Portugal has the foresight to understand that in the Americas he has the possiblity to create a great empire and instead of sending just a few adventurers to build outposts he organizes a mass migration of poruguese settlers to the Americas, if he sends at least 50 000 during a few decades they will have a huge demographical growth and have the possibilty to conquer the Americas from Pole to Pole in about two centuries.
If the Portuguese Empire develops sucessfully, while Russia remains mired in backwardness and instability, the Portuguese Empire can gradually make the Pacific a portuguese lake and eventually establish a colony in the Siberian Far East and durig a moment of russian weakness send forces strong enough to beat the russians in their backyard conquer Siberia all the way to the Urals and settle it with portuguese people.
 
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