AHC: Portuguese second-dominant language in the USA.

With a POD after 1790, but before 1990, how would it possible for Portuguese to become the second-most dominant language in the United States, similar to how Spanish is in OTL?

Bonus points for those who can make Portuguese the second-dominant language of the USA in a similar way that Spanish did in OTL.

Oh, just for kicks, how would it be possible for Portuguese or Spanish to become the primary, dominant language of the United States, as English is in OTL?
 
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1) The US conquers Brazil
2) The US conquers Latin America

Anything else is ASB since Spaniards and Portuguese won't go to the US as much as other groups since they can go to New World countries of their own language.
 
yeah, going with the above poster US annexing brazil is about the only way you are gonna get that, anything else would require a POD so far back as to butterfly away the US in any recognizeable way.
 
Technically, we missed US conquering Portugal. And, for that matter, Portugal conquering the US (perhaps if it openly backed the French Revolution, though such a conquest would be in conjunction with the British), then losing control sometime later.

Still, U.S. conquering Brazil, while unlikely, is more likely than either of those scenarios.
 
With a POD after 1790, but before 1990, how would it possible for Portuguese to become the second-most dominant language in the United States, similar to how Spanish is in OTL?

Make Cape Verdean and Continental Portuguese immigration more heavier than in OTL (and not just from the Azores and Madeira), and spread them out beyond New England. In OTL, there was Azorean and Cape Verdean immigration (and there still is), but it's all basically concentrated in my neck of the woods. (You need not have the US conquer the Lusophonie nor Brazilian immigration for this.)
 
With a POD in 1790, the USA annexing Brazil (or at least a large chunk of it) is about the only way to make this happen. If the POD is earlier, you could potentially do a Portuguese Mexico or a Portuguese Caribbean.
 
Very hard...

Mexico is conquered in the 1860's by Portugal instead of France and Portuguese becomes the official language with forced education?

Brazil falls to some Pol Pot level arch-Commie, forcing a mass exodus to the US?
 
After 1790 is very hard.
if the POD limit could be changed, we could have Pope Alexander VI make the Tordesillas treaty the other way round
 
With a POD in 1790, the USA annexing Brazil (or at least a large chunk of it) is about the only way to make this happen. If the POD is earlier, you could potentially do a Portuguese Mexico or a Portuguese Caribbean.

Like I said - even with a 1790 POD, just make Cape Verdean and Continental Portuguese immigration more heavier and more spread out than OTL. No invasions and no annexations necessary.
 
I think the problem is that both Portugal and Brazil are too far from Portugal to have massive immigration to the U.S. of the scale of the neighbouring Spanish speaking countries. The U.S. has Mexico, Cuba, Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic all within a short distance. Colombia, Ecuador and Central America are all closer as well.

There are Portuguese in the U.S. but as mentioned earlier the majority are from the Azores. The Azoreans began arriving in New England on the whaling ships that would leave from Massachusetts to the Azores to go whale hunting. Until 1950 the Azoreans accounted for 90% of the Portuguese immigrants to the U.S. Most settled in Fall River, New Bedford and Taunton in Massachusetts as well as around Providence in RI. By the early 1900s Azoreans began settling in the San Joaquin valley of California where they became dairy farmers.

After 1950 there were a smattering of people from the mainland who settled mostly around Newark, NJ in Connecticut and Southern Massachusetts, but most Azoreans still accounted for 70% of the overall total. In Hawaii there were immigrants from Madeira, but this migratory movement ended by the First World War.

One of the problems with attracting large numbers of Portuguese is that Brazil was a very easy country to emigrate too even after its independence from Portugal. Portuguese immigrants were able to easily assimilate in the country and were exempt from quotas that other nationalities were subjected to in the 1930s. Brazil was the destination for 90% of the Portuguese emigrants prior to 1950.

In the 1950s Portuguese emigration starting spreading to new countries. Angola and Mozambique overtook Brazil during this period as the primary destination for Portuguese emigrants, though they were not counted as emigrants since they were technically speaking domestic migrants. By the 1960s with a boom in Western Europe, France became the primary destination as it was easily accessible and would continue until the mid-1970s.

Even if all of the Portuguese who went abroad since 1950 emigrated to the U.S. they still wouldn't equal the sheer numbers of emigrants from Spanish-speaking countries. At most you'd get 4 million Portuguese speakers from Portugal. Below are figures of the leading destinations for Portuguese emigrants since 1950. Keep in mind that Portugal has a high rate of return migration with many of these even from the U.S. having eventually returned home. Incidentally the highest rate of return tends to be amongst Portuguese from the mainland. Also, Western Europe especially Germany have had the highest numbers of returnees with well over half of the emigrants having been temporary.

France 1,055,000
Angola 375,000
Brazil 325,000
Germany 275,000
Mozambique 235,000
USA 200,000
Switzerland 180,000
Venezuela 165,000
Spain 160,000
Canada 150,000
United Kingdom 85,000
South Africa 80,000
Luxembourg 55,000
 
à Viriato: I know about the Portuguese end of immigration to New England, seeing as my home state was one of the epicentres of it. Nowadays, my hometown is also a main nexus for my state's Cape Verdean community.

What I would like to see, in terms of Continental Portuguese immigration, is to have it a bit more diversified instead of it all coming from the Azores and Madeira. Say, for example, some massive sustained crop failure or some other major economic disaster in Northern Portugal (randomly selected for the example) sends a good chunk of Northern Portuguese across the Atlantic and into North America, and the US in particular. The same is also true of Cape Verdean immigration - in that case, it just needs to be more heavier than OTL.
 
à Viriato: I know about the Portuguese end of immigration to New England, seeing as my home state was one of the epicentres of it. Nowadays, my hometown is also a main nexus for my state's Cape Verdean community.

What I would like to see, in terms of Continental Portuguese immigration, is to have it a bit more diversified instead of it all coming from the Azores and Madeira. Say, for example, some massive sustained crop failure or some other major economic disaster in Northern Portugal (randomly selected for the example) sends a good chunk of Northern Portuguese across the Atlantic and into North America, and the US in particular. The same is also true of Cape Verdean immigration - in that case, it just needs to be more heavier than OTL.

My family emigrated to Hartford from mainland Portugal in the 1960s and 1970s but they were the minority. My grandmother's elder siblings were born in the U.S. and had returned to Portugal during the depression. Even with siblings born in the U.S. it took my grandparents 4 years to be allowed to immigrate.

Before 1965, the Portuguese were limited to an annual quota of 503 immigrants under the 1924 immigration act. So you'd really have to have no act to have large scale immigration. Brazil was always more accessible so even with large scale crop failure I think you'd see the bulk of emigrants head for Brazil. Brazil actively promoted Portuguese immigration and the Brazilian constitution to this day allows Portuguese residents in Brazil the same rights as citizens except to hold the office of President or Vice-President.

For Madeirans Venezuela was the most attractive option. The Venezuelan government encouraged Portuguese immigration and around 2/3 of the immigrants there came from the island. Nowadays with the crisis in Venezuela, there are many Venezuelan-born Portuguese in Madeira.

Portuguese emigration to the U.S. picked up by the late 1960s and early 1970s to around 10,000 per year, but this was short lived. What I found at least in CT was that by the 1980s many Portuguese began returning to Portugal with the savings they had acquired. Of my family just over half of those who immigrated to the U.S. eventually returned to Portugal (including my own parents).
 
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