AHC: Polish-Hungarian-Lithuanian Union

Technically, Władysław III was king of Poland, king of Hungary and supreme prince of Lithuania, although Lithuania was ruled by his brother, Casimir (later also king of Poland, Casimir IV). Perhaps successful battle of Varna (with Władysław actually listening to John Hunyadi) or no battle of Varna at all (Władysław doesn't listen to pope's legate Cesarini and doesn't break the truce with the Ottomans) might be a good start. Poland and Hungary are united against the Ottoman Empire, while Lithuania is ruled by the cadet branch of Jagiellon family, with the main branch keeping the title of the supreme prince of Lithuania. Eventually, Polish-Hungarian or Lithuanian branch of Jagiellon ends and the surviving branch becomes ruler of 3 states.
 
It would be a central european juggernaut, capable of facing the Ottomans, Habsburgs or Moscowy and quite likely allied with France.
 
Technically, Władysław III was king of Poland, king of Hungary and supreme prince of Lithuania, although Lithuania was ruled by his brother, Casimir (later also king of Poland, Casimir IV). Perhaps successful battle of Varna (with Władysław actually listening to John Hunyadi) or no battle of Varna at all (Władysław doesn't listen to pope's legate Cesarini and doesn't break the truce with the Ottomans) might be a good start. Poland and Hungary are united against the Ottoman Empire, while Lithuania is ruled by the cadet branch of Jagiellon family, with the main branch keeping the title of the supreme prince of Lithuania. Eventually, Polish-Hungarian or Lithuanian branch of Jagiellon ends and the surviving branch becomes ruler of 3 states.

Interesting. How big of a player would this powerful state be in European politics? PResumably it would be more western focused. Could other powers (Sweden, Austria, Russia, and Bohemia come to mind) recognize it as powerful state that needs to be split before its too late and try to break it apart?
 
Interesting. How big of a player would this powerful state be in European politics? PResumably it would be more western focused. Could other powers (Sweden, Austria, Russia, and Bohemia come to mind) recognize it as powerful state that needs to be split before its too late and try to break it apart?

Well, they didn't realise that with Russia now did they?

A western oriented, Poland-Hungary-Lithuania is cool. What name would it take? Jagiellon Empire? The Polish-Hungarian-Lithuanian Commonwealth?

This is actually a really interesting idea to me. I don't know a whole lot on eastern europe during the time period, but I'm gonna do some research. This seems like it could be a really interesting TL.
 
Originally by slydessertfox
Interesting. How big of a player would this powerful state be in European politics? PResumably it would be more western focused. Could other powers (Sweden, Austria, Russia, and Bohemia come to mind) recognize it as powerful state that needs to be split before its too late and try to break it apart?

Other powers might try to destroy PLHC (Polish-Lithuanian-Hungarian Commonewalth) but it wouldn't be so easy. A long and hot border with the Ottoman Empire would require a large, permanent army, which might also stregthen king's political power. Not to mention the fact that the very existence of PLHC might butterfly rising of some powers - like Austria, e.g.
IMHO the greatest threat to PLHC would be internal - we're talking about country with many nations (Poles, Lithuanians, Ruthenians, Germans, Hungarians, Slovakians, Jews, possibly also Romanians, if PLHC takes Transylvania) and many religions (at least Catholic, Orthodox and Jewish, possibly more, if Protestantism is not butterflied away); also interests of Poland might be in conflict with interests of Hungary, or Poles might not be willing to pay bigger taxes for army defending Hungary, or Hungarians wouldn't want their army to leave their country to defend Lithuania from Moscovia, or Lithuanians wouldn't be willing to fight for Polish Pomerania or Silesia, etc. The very size of the country and relative weakness of the king might also be a problem.
Of course none of those problem is unsolveable. E.g. victorious Władysław III might return with his army to Poland and stregthen his position there; and if not him, then perhaps his successor(s); Jagiellonian policy of religious tolerance might be successful, especially if there is no Counter-Reformation (it worked well enough IOTL); a joint invasion against PLHC by its neighbours might awaken a sense of solidarity, when Polish army saves Buda from the Ottoman siege, Lithuanians die in defence of Warsaw or Cracow from Austrian and/or Bohemians, a Hungarian force stops Tatar or Russian march on Vilnius...; the parliament is created with members from all countries, without some of dumber ideas (like liberum veto) but with some kind of guarantee protecting one country's interests from, being sacrificed by the others...
 
Originally by slydessertfox


Other powers might try to destroy PLHC (Polish-Lithuanian-Hungarian Commonewalth) but it wouldn't be so easy. A long and hot border with the Ottoman Empire would require a large, permanent army, which might also stregthen king's political power. Not to mention the fact that the very existence of PLHC might butterfly rising of some powers - like Austria, e.g.
IMHO the greatest threat to PLHC would be internal - we're talking about country with many nations (Poles, Lithuanians, Ruthenians, Germans, Hungarians, Slovakians, Jews, possibly also Romanians, if PLHC takes Transylvania) and many religions (at least Catholic, Orthodox and Jewish, possibly more, if Protestantism is not butterflied away); also interests of Poland might be in conflict with interests of Hungary, or Poles might not be willing to pay bigger taxes for army defending Hungary, or Hungarians wouldn't want their army to leave their country to defend Lithuania from Moscovia, or Lithuanians wouldn't be willing to fight for Polish Pomerania or Silesia, etc. The very size of the country and relative weakness of the king might also be a problem.
Of course none of those problem is unsolveable. E.g. victorious Władysław III might return with his army to Poland and stregthen his position there; and if not him, then perhaps his successor(s); Jagiellonian policy of religious tolerance might be successful, especially if there is no Counter-Reformation (it worked well enough IOTL); a joint invasion against PLHC by its neighbours might awaken a sense of solidarity, when Polish army saves Buda from the Ottoman siege, Lithuanians die in defence of Warsaw or Cracow from Austrian and/or Bohemians, a Hungarian force stops Tatar or Russian march on Vilnius...; the parliament is created with members from all countries, without some of dumber ideas (like liberum veto) but with some kind of guarantee protecting one country's interests from, being sacrificed by the others...

The only foreign powers around are the HRE, not really interested in expansionist moves, not without the Habsburgs (they could be easily butterflied away), and the Ottomans, and they just suffered a devastating defeat (by a victorious Varna or even without a Varna at all), Constatinople not yet taken....

National dissent at this time is non-existent, however, feudal limitations on military could be a problem. But manageable problem.

Religionwise, this commonwealth would be frimly catholic, with serious orthodox presence... well, this could be a problem.
 
Originally posted by kalamona
National dissent at this time is non-existent, however, feudal limitations on military could be a problem. But manageable problem.

National dissent yes, but regional dissent might raise its head much earlier. Different regions might have different interests and it might be hard to convince local lords that their region is not the most important thing in the world and yes, they need to pay bigger taxes to raise an army defending a land over 1000 km away.
 
Originally posted by kalamona


National dissent yes, but regional dissent might raise its head much earlier. Different regions might have different interests and it might be hard to convince local lords that their region is not the most important thing in the world and yes, they need to pay bigger taxes to raise an army defending a land over 1000 km away.

Yes, this was an issue OTL. Like, the campaigns before Varna suffered from this greatly, or the second battle of kosovo, the sieges of Wien, etcetcetc.
But, as in OTL, those limitations could be overcome like Matthias did (by sheer power and some light abuse of authority) and not always existed (like before the battle of Mohács, checz troops were on the field and on their way).

On short term, as we chosen our pod around Varna, we have a very young king, just sucessfuly finished some campaigns against the most powerful advisaries aviable. He had the limitless suport of one of the most powerful noble in Hungary, and he would have been powerful on his own right.

On the long term? I have no idea. But a sucessful, long reigning Wladislaw could change some big things.
 
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