Ahc Poland defeat Nazi germany

Geon

Donor
No way for any Soviet Soldier to set foot in Poland, 'Volunteer' or not, without causing the Polish Government to implode

The Polish government has a choice. Willingly let in some Soviet "volunteers" with strict guidelines on how long and how many can come in, or unwillingly watch as Germany enters Poland and at best captures Danzig, Poland's only access to the sea. At worst you're looking at a similar situation to 1939 except this time Germany gets all of Poland. (No Ribbentrop/Molotov pact). At this point Poland does not have many good choices. And it's just seen how the Western Allies are willing to throw nations they've "guaranteed independence" under the train. They might not like the Soviets coming in but if they impose some controls on numbers and time the Russians can stay, that could make the choice more bearable.
 
The Polish government has a choice. Willingly let in some Soviet "volunteers" with strict guidelines on how long and how many can come in, or unwillingly watch as Germany enters Poland and at best captures Danzig, Poland's only access to the sea. At worst you're looking at a similar situation to 1939 except this time Germany gets all of Poland. (No Ribbentrop/Molotov pact). At this point Poland does not have many good choices. And it's just seen how the Western Allies are willing to throw nations they've "guaranteed independence" under the train. They might not like the Soviets coming in but if they impose some controls on numbers and time the Russians can stay, that could make the choice more bearable.
In 1939, The Poles knew how bad the Soviets would be, after fighting the Bolsheviks in 1920 and being oppressed by the Tzars for 200 years before that.
They didn't expect the Nazis, to be well, Nazis, probably expecting a mix on how the Austrians and Freikorps acted like they did in Silesia after the War.
Whoops.
 
The Polish Navy was of little use in keeping Poland free of Germans or Russians.
Money spent of 5 subs and 4 Destroyers could have been spent anywhere else to have had more use in 1939
Alliance value. 2 Destroyers and 3 Subs were built in France and the Poles would be expecting supply and assistance from France in the Baltic against a Soviet aggressor.
 
Alliance value. 2 Destroyers and 3 Subs were built in France and the Poles would be expecting supply and assistance from France in the Baltic against a Soviet aggressor.
Again, Battleships in the Baltic are of no use when T-28 and BT-7s are in Warsaw.

Getting the license to build S-35 would have been more useful, along with the MS.406 Fighter in 1936
 
I'll admit to this being outside my area of knowledge (I'm more of a medieval man :p) but what about a PoD sometime in the Polish-Soviet War? Would a big win for Poland there potentially help them out a decade or two down the road, or would that just make things worse?
 
Is there a way to butterfly the Polish-Czechoslovak border conflicts in order to allow for an earlier form of Polish-Czechoslovak federation or at least a mutual defense pact against Germany, years before Beneš began viewing the Soviets as the lesser evil compared to the Germans?

How about more unrest among Czech Germans in late 1918/early 1919? Or a more intense conflict with Hungary in the same period? It could make the Czechs unwilling to overturn the provisional agreement which divided the most disputed area on ethnic lines and lead to less bad blood down the road.
 
WI. British/French intelligence decode/spy on the high command to get details of the planned date and time way in advance. British planes, tanks and troops are shipped into Poland aswell as France. As in the OTL Germany commitment to the Polish invasion leave her unprotected, except this time intelligence reports realise this is the plan in advance. French troops are stationed to invade Germany as soon as the German troops move into Poland. Germany gets attacked on 2 fronts simultanously and the unprotected German cities fall to allied hands.

Whether the Allies would still be overwhelmed by the blitzkreig tactics is another matter.
 
Seems ASBish but Poland might, conceivably, have stood a chance. IIRC back in the '20s Pilsudski opined that Poland shouldn't build an airforce other than a few reconnaissance planes. Evidently, he thought an airforce was a luxury Poland couldn't afford. Pilsudski's advice wasn't heeded. In the '30s Rayski, who was influenced by Douhet, was fairly influential--notwithstanding the impracticality of a small country building bombers. What if, starting c 1930, the Poles had listened to Pilsudski and not embarked on a futile attempt to match nazi air power? What if all the money and resources sunk into the air force was invested in (homemade) 75mm antiaircraft guns and plenty of antitank guns of the same caliber? With much better means to deal with panzers and the Luftwaffe, maybe Poland could've repelled the attack.

I'd go with the opposite, the Poles go for a highly trained and as well equipped air force as possible. So well trained they can execute a preemptive dawn attack on the German AF, as the bombers are lined up predawn the Poles come in dropping flares and bombs or rockets. Related to this I'd have the Poles take a close look at a shoulder fired rocket gun Dr Goddard designed for the US Army in 1918. One of those in every infantry squad, larger ones in the regiment AT company, and a variant carried on aircraft would make things interesting. I don't usually wank over hardware, but this one is so cute...
 
The Polish government has a choice. Willingly let in some Soviet "volunteers" with strict guidelines on how long and how many can come in, or unwillingly watch as Germany enters Poland and at best captures Danzig, Poland's only access to the sea. At worst you're looking at a similar situation to 1939 except this time Germany gets all of Poland. (No Ribbentrop/Molotov pact). At this point Poland does not have many good choices. And it's just seen how the Western Allies are willing to throw nations they've "guaranteed independence" under the train. They might not like the Soviets coming in but if they impose some controls on numbers and time the Russians can stay, that could make the choice more bearable.
You don't play this kind of games with Soviets without repercussions
 
Alliance value. 2 Destroyers and 3 Subs were built in France and the Poles would be expecting supply and assistance from France in the Baltic against a Soviet aggressor.
Each of the ships Poland got cost about as much as raising and equipping a battalion of 7tp tanks. Of course when Poland bought destroyers and subs from France nobody dreamed of 7tp... Vickers E would be another matter.
 
Maybe invest more money in AT defences (perhaps at the expense of the Navy ?) Doctrine and training to employ the new assets would also be needed.

Maybe lots of small units equipped with AT weapons, mines, mortars and machine guns that fight delaying actions against the Germans and use camouflage to avoid air attack prior to engaging the German army ?

That goes contrary to the lesson learned in 1919-1920, however. The Wojska's attack mentality was a result of the victory in that war. Maneuver and offensive were what led to victory. You are asking them to switch to the stationary defensive. I'm not saying it's impossible, but you need to change the Soviet-Polish War.
 
That goes contrary to the lesson learned in 1919-1920, however. The Wojska's attack mentality was a result of the victory in that war. Maneuver and offensive were what led to victory. You are asking them to switch to the stationary defensive. I'm not saying it's impossible, but you need to change the Soviet-Polish War.
Yet, aside of Kutrzeba and Army Poznań there was little maneuvering and much retreating. Anyway you cannot conduct maneuver warfare when your forces are slower than enemy and you are 24 hours or so behind them in decision cycle.

If Poland is to defeat Germay is 1939 - and by defeat I mean do not lose and don't be completely occupied Poles need bigger army, with better equipment, and better quality of commanders, and better war plan. Better - that is worse - weather would be welcome too.

Bigger army and better gear needs money, which means either better economy or foreign subsidy. I would not count on the latter. So better economy - Poland was absolutely wrecked in WW1 - either by the front moving back and forth through her territory, or Russians and Germans disassembling and carrying away anything they could and destroying what they couldn't. It would be good to avoid that. Then you have the Polish-Bolshevik War which devastated what somehow miraculously survived WW1. And then incompetent governments of colonels. So - I dont know whether this is even doable but whatever - Central Powers WW1do better and Eastern Front quickly stabilizes somewhere east of Bug. Fast forward to Versailles and Poland gets more territories from Germany (maybe Lloyd George drops dead or something - it doesnt hurt relations with Germany, for Germany of anythis period any Poland larger and more independent than the GG was too much), including, among others, tank factory in Gliwice and aircraft factory in Piła, and of course, the port in Gdańsk. Then you need to find the hat from which you can pull some competent economists and administrators who would build on that and ensure that Poland develops somewhat faster than its neigbors instead of slower. Furthermore, keep the standing army amaller so you could spend more money on modernization and less on sustenance
 
Yet, aside of Kutrzeba and Army Poznań there was little maneuvering and much retreating. Anyway you cannot conduct maneuver warfare when your forces are slower than enemy and you are 24 hours or so behind them in decision cycle.

Of course. The Poles were ready for maneuvered warfare to the 1920 standard - the main mobile unit being the cavalry regiment. They were outdated. Still they did not want to fight a defensive, static war.

Additionally, there was little successful maneuvering. But attempts at maneuver, albeit unsuccessful, did take place. The initial reaction, before being weakened by air attacks on the logistics and by the contact with the fast-moving, fast-commanded Panzerdivisionen, was attempts at disjointed, out-timed offensive maneuvers.
 
Poland supports Czechslovakia rather than being incredibly shortsighted. USSR mobilises as they wanted to anyway (only didn't because Poland refused troop transit) and together Polish, Soviets and Czechs fight Nazis.

French and British probably don't help Nazis even with them supporting at Munich

This pod can be done up to Munich conference, either by having Czechslovakia agree to border change with Poland in return for support or Poland just agreeing to USSR troop movement
 
Poland supports Czechslovakia rather than being incredibly shortsighted. USSR mobilises as they wanted to anyway (only didn't because Poland refused troop transit) and together Polish, Soviets and Czechs fight Nazis.

French and British probably don't help Nazis even with them supporting at Munich

This pod can be done up to Munich conference, either by having Czechslovakia agree to border change with Poland in return for support or Poland just agreeing to USSR troop movement

The day after Poland announces its intent to support Czechoslovakia, Ribbentrop will by flying to Moscow and offering Stalin almost anything he wants in return for help. Will noble comrade Stalin refuse because he wants to uphold the independence of central European countries?

The Polish government has a choice. Willingly let in some Soviet "volunteers" with strict guidelines on how long and how many can come in, or unwillingly watch as Germany enters Poland and at best captures Danzig, Poland's only access to the sea. At worst you're looking at a similar situation to 1939 except this time Germany gets all of Poland. (No Ribbentrop/Molotov pact). At this point Poland does not have many good choices. And it's just seen how the Western Allies are willing to throw nations they've "guaranteed independence" under the train. They might not like the Soviets coming in but if they impose some controls on numbers and time the Russians can stay, that could make the choice more bearable.

Once the Polish army is fully engaged, comrade Stalin will very kindly send 2 million additional volunteers without any guidelines.
 
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