AHC/POD/WI: This World Scenario after the Neolithic revolution

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Albert.Nik

Banned
In the late Neolithic and early Bronze age,the Anatolia,Levant,Thrace and Caucasus region is brimming with flourishing agricultural settlements and City states. Suddenly a realisation pervades across the Neolithic Basque like peoples who are living across these region,the peoples in the Caucasus like Hurro-Urartians,other Caucasian groups,people originating from the Caucasus like the Burusho and even Indo-Europeans and Uralic peoples who lives nearby that they could form a large united confederation,use Terraforming technologies using animals,wind,primitive Solar energy and flowing water(Hydropower) and could reap huge rewards. They get to the path. They begin and Anatolia,Europe and the Caucasus is done. They begin south. Afro-Asiatic peoples are taken in and as expansion continues,Dravidians,East Asians,Africans all are taken in and assimilated. The capital megapolis is in the Antioch region in Anatolia where they began. After eventual assimilation,people look in the range of Nordic to Leventines with people speaking diverse languages as today but still look similar and are united in culture,goals,etc. Americas and the Native Americans are eventually taken in and that continent is developed too. It is a green,advanced and a happy World ever after as technologies and sciences are quickly advanced. The belief system is some kind of liberal Panentheism with aspects in all languages of those who joined(all peoples). By 100CE,the World is now a Type 1 civization on the Kardashev scale. Lifespans are extended indefinitely,highly advanced techs are discovered when Science and Metaphysics are going to converge. Would this fast forwarded civilization development happen with a good probability?
 
In the late Neolithic and early Bronze age,the Anatolia,Levant,Thrace and Caucasus region is brimming with flourishing agricultural settlements and City states. Suddenly a realisation pervades across the Neolithic Basque like peoples who are living across these region,the peoples in the Caucasus like Hurro-Urartians,other Caucasian groups,people originating from the Caucasus like the Burusho and even Indo-Europeans and Uralic peoples who lives nearby that they could form a large united confederation,

But why should they? If you're the king of one of these cities, why do you want some strange people who don't speak your language or worship your gods to have any say in how you run your city, when you don't even want the people who do speak your language and worship your gods to try and run your city.

I don't see how ethnicity has anything to do with this either.

use Terraforming technologies using animals,wind,primitive Solar energy and flowing water(Hydropower) and could reap huge rewards. They get to the path.

Which they did OTL to the best of their abilities. But there's a serious limit to that with Bronze Age tech.

They begin and Anatolia,Europe and the Caucasus is done. They begin south. Afro-Asiatic peoples are taken in and as expansion continues,Dravidians,East Asians,Africans all are taken in and assimilated.

Or not, because their neighbors were more or less using this tech too and soon enough they'll start losing battles, their great king will die, and they'll have civil wars and collapse. Notice how relatively small Bronze Age empires were.

The capital megapolis is in the Antioch region in Anatolia where they began.

Assyrians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, etc. all had limits to their expansion. Someone in this part of the world isn't getting much past OTL Roman borders in the west, and not much past Achaemenid borders in the east. India, Ethiopia and sub-Saharan Africa, the Far East, and East Asia in general will remain inaccessible. Logistics will ensure an empire that big will come apart sooner or later, in addition to failing to expand.

After eventual assimilation,people look in the range of Nordic to Leventines with people speaking diverse languages as today but still look similar and are united in culture,goals,etc. Americas and the Native Americans are eventually taken in and that continent is developed too. It is a green,advanced and a happy World ever after as technologies and sciences are quickly advanced. The belief system is some kind of liberal Panentheism with aspects in all languages of those who joined(all peoples). By 100CE,the World is now a Type 1 civization on the Kardashev scale. Lifespans are extended indefinitely,highly advanced techs are discovered when Science and Metaphysics are going to converge. Would this fast forwarded civilization development happen with a good probability?

No. It's ASB wish fulfillment.
 

Albert.Nik

Banned
But why should they? If you're the king of one of these cities, why do you want some strange people who don't speak your language or worship your gods to have any say in how you run your city, when you don't even want the people who do speak your language and worship your gods to try and run your city.
Let's concentrate on others after this. So how many empires do we know that were ethnically and linguistically homogeneous? Rome had plenty of Emperors of other origins. Berber,Syrian,Arab,Balkan,Celtic origin/speaking emperors had all been there but they had the equal zeal towards the Roman Empire. Why can't we expect the same earlier in the Anatolia,Caucasus and the Fertile crescent earlier? We need to know that even in the Bronze age and the Iron age,the empires in this region were not as ethnically and linguistically homogeneous. All three Hellenistic Greek Kingdoms elsewhere took people and aspects from the Natives there. So,I don't think this necessarily holds true until there is an upheavel. That is what we want to avoid here. In this timeline,they would discover,for them, advanced Science and Technology in a faster manner and use it to generate more resources for survival,stability and advancement. In OTL,the Neolithic and Bronze age farmers dispersed away to other places from the Anatolia and Caucasus. But in this ATL,they stay back and build up the region and step by step neighbouring regions. Indo-Europeans,Hurro-Urartians,Neolithic Basque Like ethnicities,ethnicities like Isuarians,Sumerians,etc all come together and build cities and advanced civilizations instead of some dispersing as tribes and others building small city states. Systematically,after building up these regions with Mega cities dotting and quite rapidly advancing technology and hence huge populations,they start incorporating other peoples and bringing them in and developing all the lands as they spread.
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Which they did OTL to the best of their abilities. But there's a serious limit to that with Bronze Age tech.



Or not, because their neighbors were more or less using this tech too and soon enough they'll start losing battles, their great king will die, and they'll have civil wars and collapse. Notice how relatively small Bronze Age empires were.
Start with the Bronze age technology but quickly advance to more advanced technologies. Faster technological advancement or rather fastest possible is the center of this thread.
Have already explained about the second point in the quoted text.
 

Albert.Nik

Banned
Speaking about India,those who were primly involved in the building of Indian civilization,Indo-Iranians(Indo-Europeans) and the Neolithic migrants from the fertile crescent are already a part of the Union. So rather than an invasion,It would be a migration and migration to India isn't that difficult.
 
Let's concentrate on others after this. So how many empires do we know that were ethnically and linguistically homogeneous? Rome had plenty of Emperors of other origins. Berber,Syrian,Arab,Balkan,Celtic origin/speaking emperors had all been there but they had the equal zeal towards the Roman Empire. Why can't we expect the same earlier in the Anatolia,Caucasus and the Fertile crescent earlier? We need to know that even in the Bronze age and the Iron age,the empires in this region were not as ethnically and linguistically homogeneous. All three Hellenistic Greek Kingdoms elsewhere took people and aspects from the Natives there. So,I don't think this necessarily holds true until there is an upheavel.

Which is completely true. If the king of one of these cities decides he doesn't want some other king to have a say in how he runs his city, then he gets an army sent to his doorstep and told to submit. That's empire building 101. Unfortunately, empire building is by nature pretty violent, which is often counterproductive to technological advancement. Spreading diseases, causing famine, brilliant young minds dying in battle, that's been a side effect of empire building since day one. Archimedes is a famous example of a scholar killed in warfare (granted, he was 75 years old).

That is what we want to avoid here. In this timeline,they would discover,for them, advanced Science and Technology in a faster manner and use it to generate more resources for survival,stability and advancement. In OTL,the Neolithic and Bronze age farmers dispersed away to other places from the Anatolia and Caucasus. But in this ATL,they stay back and build up the region and step by step neighbouring regions. Indo-Europeans,Hurro-Urartians,Neolithic Basque Like ethnicities,ethnicities like Isuarians,Sumerians,etc all come together and build cities and advanced civilizations instead of some dispersing as tribes and others building small city states. Systematically,after building up these regions with Mega cities dotting and quite rapidly advancing technology and hence huge populations,they start incorporating other peoples and bringing them in and developing all the lands as they spread.

But why? What reason do they have to stay behind and "build their region up" (and abstract concept that would make little sense to these people)? From their point of view, the land on the other side of that ridge, be it the Indus Valley, the Balkans, whatever, is great land and has few people. Where they currently live has lots of people, and the amount of farmland is getting low. "Nature abhors a vacuum" applies here. Further, Bronze Age cities had limitations, since there's limited amounts of water in the Levant, rivers shift course (hence all the abandoned ancient cities), and there's problems with soil salinity which all affect how big of a population you have. You will, at some point, run into a major drought, and odds are a drought will occur after years of poor crop yields due to soil salinity. Then your people will either die or disperse and cities will get abandoned.

And then why should their own technology not spread? Agriculture and farming spread to unrelated peoples before long, and so did bronze and iron. So now it's spread to their neighbours, and now their have no reason not to laugh in their face when they're told to submit.

And why is technology an inherent good if you're an ancient king? Sure, it's fascinating to anyone, as many centuries of automatons can attest to, but what practical purpose does it serve? Can it summon up more food or gold or instantly knock down the walls of a revolting city? Obviously not, and they have no indication that it will lead to anything like that since they can't just look at the tech tree to see what they need to research to get, say, cannons or dynamite. So why waste money on something like that when you could instead build monuments to your gods? After all, the gods can give your country more food and gold and knock down the walls of enemy cities no problem, so you better please them. Overall, a lot of this is counter to human nature.

Speaking about India,those who were primly involved in the building of Indian civilization,Indo-Iranians(Indo-Europeans) and the Neolithic migrants from the fertile crescent are already a part of the Union. So rather than an invasion,It would be a migration and migration to India isn't that difficult.

Except it would since no empire aside from the British ever ruled both India and the Levant (Alexander and the Mongols tried and failed). Once they do go to India and "develop" India (which India would develop long before they ever even heard of these people), then India has no reason to stay around with them.
 
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