AHC/POD/WI: Caucasian origin large Empires

Albert.Nik

Banned
Throught the History of the West,large Empires have overwhelmingly been Indo-European or European itself. In this AHC,we want to have an empire built by the Caucasian people like the Abkhaz,Circassians,Hurrians,Urartians,etc. The Caucasian peoples have been at the forefront of all invasions from the East(Turkic and Mongol) and South(Arab,Persian). So in this AHC,we want to reverse the tide and these people from the Caucasus start the Empires and spread over larger parts of Central Asia,Middle East including Arabia and Northern parts of Africa,Anatolia and even into Europe and a far fetched scenario,Northern parts of Indian subcontinent. And what would be the implications of them building,populating as a majority large parts of the East and the Middle East and they probably are Jewish/Christian or maybe a Caucasian origin universalizing Monotheism. So how would the World fare in all terms? Like religion,politics,etc?
 

Albert.Nik

Banned
Another option is to make them in touch with Greeks and Romans sufficiently which actually they had in OTL. But more. So that there would be significant Caucasian peoples in Europe as well and many emperors in these empires as well. You can even have something like Alexander+Caucasian alliance as they head east and affect those areas too. You can have large empires in the East as well. But the ethnicity should be kept Caucasian origin. And add Georgians,Chechens,Hattians,etc to that list as well.
 
You mean only very old Caucasian groups, not Alans, Ossetians or even Armenians, Azeris?

This limits us a lot, maybe a Georgian empire in the 12-13th century with no Mongols?
 

Albert.Nik

Banned
You mean only very old Caucasian groups, not Alans, Ossetians or even Armenians, Azeris?

This limits us a lot, maybe a Georgian empire in the 12-13th century with no Mongols?
Only non Indo-European,non Turkic and non Mongol/East Asian and non Afro-Asiatic Caucasians. Ossetians are Indo-European Scythian descendants and Armenians are Indo-European as well though they are descended from Urartians but that doesn't count if Urartians don't survive linguistically as well(OTL they exist as Armenians). Azeris are Turkic. Georgians okay. Keep the POD in antiquity if possible.
 
Are you aware that the peoples of the Caucasus are not a single ethnic and/or linguistic group?
As such are you after an empire formed by any members of the Caucasus or do you want something more specific?
 
Are you aware that the peoples of the Caucasus are not a single ethnic and/or linguistic group?
As such are you after an empire formed by any members of the Caucasus or do you want something more specific?
As is he says above all group of the Caucasus that do not belong to any external larger linguistic group.
 

Albert.Nik

Banned
Are you aware that the peoples of the Caucasus are not a single ethnic and/or linguistic group?
As such are you after an empire formed by any members of the Caucasus or do you want something more specific?
I know there are many language families and ethnicities. Pick any from the Caucasian peoples only like Chechen(Pre Islamic),Abkhaz,Georgians,Circassians(Pre Islamic),Hurrians and Urartians and any other Caucasian origin ethnicity that could be extinct now. Indo-Europeans,Afro-Asiatic,Turkic,Mongol,etc formed large empires elsewhere but conquered Caucasus time to time. So we want a Caucasian origin empire founded by the Caucasians themselves.
 
As is he says above all group of the Caucasus that do not belong to any external larger linguistic group.
Thank you.
Basically any nonIE, Turkic, or Semitic.
The Georgian languages seem best place geographically to me. Nerf the Armenian and Turkic groups perhaps.
 

Albert.Nik

Banned
Thank you.
Basically any nonIE, Turkic, or Semitic.
The Georgian languages seem best place geographically to me. Nerf the Armenian and Turkic groups perhaps.
According to me,Armenians are exempt from this rule. Armenians are descendants of Urartians. A native Caucasian peoples. So are Anatolians I guess. Anatolians might have had significant Hattian ancestry who are also Caucasian peoples. Indo-Aryan speaking Mitanni is an another. They were Hurrians mostly who were an another Caucasian peoples. Also,Armenians and Anatolians are unique even within their Indo-European family. They might have migrated from somewhere North in the Caucasus itself. So Anatolians and Armenians exempted from this rule.
 
According to me,Armenians are exempt from this rule. Armenians are descendants of Urartians. A native Caucasian peoples. So are Anatolians I guess. Anatolians might have had significant Hattian ancestry who are also Caucasian peoples. Indo-Aryan speaking Mitanni is an another. They were Hurrians mostly who were an another Caucasian peoples. Also,Armenians and Anatolians are unique even within their Indo-European family. They might have migrated from somewhere North in the Caucasus itself. So Anatolians and Armenians exempted from this rule.
More accurately Armenians are a bit more mixed than that, considering local history one could easily describe them as descendant of the Hittites...
Politics of ethnogenesis aside, you're after a Caucasus centred empire that doesn't speak Turkic, Semitic, or Indo-European, with an exception made for Anatolian and Armenian branches?

Some sort of Georgian-Armenian union that expands?
 

Albert.Nik

Banned
More accurately Armenians are a bit more mixed than that, considering local history one could easily describe them as descendant of the Hittites...
Politics of ethnogenesis aside, you're after a Caucasus centred empire that doesn't speak Turkic, Semitic, or Indo-European, with an exception made for Anatolian and Armenian branches?

Some sort of Georgian-Armenian union that expands?
Yes that would qualify. But making an AHC scenario with Abkhaz,Circassians,etc would also be appreciated.
 
I know there are many language families and ethnicities. Pick any from the Caucasian peoples only like Chechen(Pre Islamic),Abkhaz,Georgians,Circassians(Pre Islamic),Hurrians and Urartians and any other Caucasian origin ethnicity that could be extinct now. Indo-Europeans,Afro-Asiatic,Turkic,Mongol,etc formed large empires elsewhere but conquered Caucasus time to time. So we want a Caucasian origin empire founded by the Caucasians themselves.
Why pre islamic?
 
Is there not a theory that the Pannonian Avars (the folks who started the Khaganate in Central Europe and fought the Byzantine Empire) spoke a Caucasian language?
 

Dolan

Banned
Isn't Mittani and Lydian Empire being mostly Caucasian? Sure, they aren't that Large for Hellenistic standards, but they are pretty large for their time.
 
North Caucasians don't stand a chance. Too much to and fro on the Eurasian steppe over the millennia to allow an enduring state there.
 
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