AHC: POD for a 1919 US Revolution?

Tovarich

Banned
Boston Police Strike gains national supportive strike action from all other US cities' Police Forces?

Not directly part of the same issue, I know, but if they coincided?
 
There was book "Back in the USSA" where jingoistic (and very inept) president makes America enter world war one in 1914, and there is revolution in 1917.
So, with POD being events leading to 1912 presidential elections, you could get some sort of revolution by 1919. But odds of it being outright socialist would be very low. Americans always seen themselves as temporarily embarrassed patricians, not as poor exploited proletariat.
Revolution succeeded in Russia, because country was very centralized, and Bolsheviks seized the state apparatus in a coup.
In USA, you could have revolutionaries take white house, capitol, and the entire Washington DC, and then... what?
How many state governments, each with its own national guard capable of resisting takeover, would follow the reds? Most would resist. To legitimize their takeover in view of actual Americans, revolutionaries would have to summon constitutional convention, and even if convention would somehow vote for the reds, most states wouldn't ratify the takeover.
So you'd need revolutionaries to conquer the entire country from DC.
 
Might very well have to be back in the Gilded Age with no Progressive Presidents being elected which makes social tensions even worse.
 

SsgtC

Banned
1919 is too late for a revolution. The only way to get the United States to go socialist at this point is for a socialist party to form and be successful within the framework of the Constitution. In other words, gaining power via the electoral process and being voted into office. Then having enough of a majority to implement major Federal socialist programs and use the carrot-stick approach to get the states in line (think how the Fed denies funding unless certain conditions are met). They then have to remain popular enough that they stay in power via the vote
 
Boston Police Strike gains national supportive strike action from all other US cities' Police Forces?

Not directly part of the same issue, I know, but if they coincided?

Add in a few spices.
1. Debs is beaten to death by prison guards and the cover-up bungled.
2. The Boston telephone operators strike drags on and is suppressed by force.
3. Galleani's followers are more successful in their bombing campaign, which inspires further, and indiscriminate, use of the "proletarian artillery".
4. In response to the "obvious" wave of Communist violence Palmer acts even more stupidly than OTL.
5. The May Day riots in Cleveland become far worse with scores killed and parts of the city fired.
6. The May Day race riots in Charleston are far worse; scores of blacks are killed, shot, beaten, hanged and burned to death. The black community arms itself for self-defense and running battles with state militia ensue.
7. The suppression of the Seattle General Strike is more violent, with numerous casualties.
8. When US forces pursue Pancho Villa, after the attacks on Ciudad Juáre, they're ambushed after crossing the Mexican border and suffer significant casualties.
9. During the First Transcontinental Motor Convoy troops are pelted with rocks and fire on supposed attackers, killing several. The convoy suffers several attacks by supposed anarchist and communist elements.
10. When the race riots begin in Chicago the black community is prepared for action in self-defense. Six days of violence leave more than two hundred dead.
11. The Socialist Part of America doesn't split; instead militant elements gain control of a more-or-less united party.
12. The nationwide Steel Strike sees initially low-level by extensive violence. This will grow worse.
13. The Omaha race riot sees initially white mobs running amok, until an unofficial black militia fights back. In the fighting that ensues more than one hundred people die, including Major General Leonard Wood.
14. The first wave of Palmer raids go badly; warned by sources within the DoJ several arrest parties are ambushed, others face spontaneous armed resistance.
15. An American legion march in Centralia degenerates into a six-day running battle between reactionary/patriotic forces and socialists. More than a hundred die and the city is devastated.
16. The Coal Strike begins with the strikers having stockpiled weapons, ammunition, supplies, money and dynamite from a series of organised thefts.

By November the USA in in a state of low level chaos with "official" governments having effectively lost control of parts of the country, several organised private militias stockpiling weapons in preparation for the seemingly inevitable Civil War II and most of the populace fearing the worst.


ETA: edited 31MAR2020 to remove typos.
 
Last edited:

SsgtC

Banned
Add in a few spices.
1. Debs is beaten to death by prison guards and the cover-up bungled.
2. The Boston telephone operators strike drags on and is suppressed by force.
3. Galleani's followers are more successful in their bombing campaign, which inspires further, and indiscriminate, use of the "proletarian artillery".
4. In response to the obvious wave of Communist violence Palmer acts even more stupidly than OTL.
5. The May Day riots in Cleveland become far worse with score killed and parts of the city fired.
6. The May Day race riots in Charleston are far worse; scores of blacks are killed, shot, beaten, hanged and burned to death. The black community arms itself for self-defense and running battles with state militia ensue.
7. The suppression of the Seattle General Strike is more violent, with numerous casualties.
8. When US forces pursue Pancho Villa, after the attacks on Ciudad Juáre, they're ambushed after crossing the Mexican border and suffer significant casualties.
9. During the First Transcontinental Motor Convoy troops are pelted with rocks and fire on supposed attackers, killing several. The convoy suffers several attacks by supposed anarchist and communist elements.
10. When the race riots begin in Chicago the black community is prepared for violence. six days of violence leave more than two hundred dead.
11. The Socialist Part of America doesn't split; instead militant elements gain control of a more-or-less united party.
12. The nationwide Steel Strike sees initially low-level by extensive violence. This will grow worse.
13. The Omaha race riot sees initially white mobs running amok, until an unofficial black militia fights back. In the fighting that ensues more than one hundred people die, including Major General Leonard Wood.
14. The first wave of Palmer raids go badly; warned by sources within the DoJ several arrest parties are ambushed, others face spontaneous armed resistance.
15. An American legion march in Centralia degenerates into a six-day running battle between reactionary/patriotic forces and socialists. More than a hundred die and the city is devastated.
16. The Coal Strike begins with the strikers having stockpiled weapons, ammunition, supplies, money and dynamite from a series of organised thefts.

By November the USA in in a state of low level chaos with "official" governments having effectively lost control of parts of the country, several organised private militias stockpiling weapons in preparation for the seemingly inevitable Civil War II and most of the populace fearing the worst.
And that's why I doubt it happens. You need too many changes to make it happen. Kinda like the Unmentionable Sea Mammal.
 
And that's why I doubt it happens. You need too many changes to make it happen. Kinda like the Unmentionable Sea Mammal.
Hmmm, probably. Though I suspect a few changes (Deb's death, May Day violence in a few cities and the race riots being worse) could cascade.
However it's an idea I'll keep for a RPG scenario; it's ripe for a Time Meddler.
 

SsgtC

Banned
Hmmm, probably. Though I suspect a few changes (Deb's death, May Day violence in a few cities and the race riots being worse) could cascade.
However it's an idea I'll keep for a RPG scenario; it's ripe for a Time Meddler.
Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't go so far as to call it ASB, but without an absolutely perfect storm of events, it won't happen. It's something that, if put into a computer simulation, probably happens no more than one time out of a hundred.
 
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