AHC/Plausibility Check: Make Stilicho the Emperor of the West

[Atamolos]

Been doing research on the late Empire, and Stilicho has fast become one of my favorite Roman generals of all time. After his assassination in 408, the WRE fell apart fast. Not saying he could've saved the West on his own, since many historians think it was a lost cause by this point, but is there any way that Germans in general could've been accepted as emperor by the senate/the Eastern court? Doesn't have to be Stilicho, could be any German. Secondarily, what effect could this have on the eventual revolt of Syagrius or the Vandal invasion of Africa?

Don't care when the POD is, just curious if its possible, since many Germans were already effectively more powerful than the western emperors (Aetius, Ricimer, etc).

 

[Adelkman]

I find this extraordinary hard to achieve. Romans were completely firm about the rule that only a roman-born can become emperor. That's why usually the germans magistri militum limited themselves to puppet the current emperor or tried to betroth their offspring to someone who had a claim to the imperial throne. Lastly, the easter roman emperor had to recognaise the legitimacy of the western emperor. They could accept a foreign eminence grise, but hardly more.

EDIT: orthography (at least, I tried)

 

[Alex Zetsu]

If an Arab (albeit a Latinized one with a deacde of distinguished service) Phillip the Arab could become Emperor, why not a Vandal? I can think of 3 Emperors who had no Roman blood. Or to be more specific, none of their great grandparents were Roman, but in some cases their parents were citizens, so does that count as Roman blood? Of course, all were raised as Romans.

 

[Hvalrossen]

Stilico was not German, his father was Vandal(a German group) but his mother was Roman.

 

[Hvalrossen]

Stilicho could probably become the emperor but he would have a strong opposition.

 

[Atamolos]

Stilico was not German, his father was Vandal(a German group) but his mother was Roman.

Well, technically by Roman law, lineage was strictly patrilineal, so the ethnicity or birthplace of his mother would be irrelevant, and he would be considered a German under Roman law.

Stilicho could probably become the emperor but he would have a strong opposition.

Well I don't doubt he, or any of the other magistri milita could have forcibly become emperor, the question I'm trying to answer is whether or not a German could become the *legitimate emperor* i.e. could they be recognized by the Eastern Emperor as the legitimate emperor of the West. Because IOTL, a German did become emperor - Odoacer, but when that happened, historians demarcate it as the end of the WRE. My question is, could a German become emperor without abolishing the WRE as an official institution

 

[Alex Zetsu]

Stilicho could probably become the emperor but he would have a strong opposition.

If he was in Honorius's good graces, could get the support of the Senate (which doesn't decide everything https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_of_the_Four_Emperors, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_of_the_Third_Century, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carausian_Revolt, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentinian_III look at how the last guy died) but it helps. And with Honorius's good graces, can he get the support of Mediolanum?

Let's suppose Honorius lives to the ripe age of 35 but Silthico is one of those guys who manages to keep physically "young." I know of a woman who is 50 who looks a third of her age and her 97 year old aunt doesn't old enough to cash a Social Security check, both are physically fit. So in this case could Stilicho be a successful Emperor and beat back the Visigoths (the squatting ones doing nothing other than collecting tribute, not the ones who were receiving a paycheck as Rome's fedoriii)

 

[Atamolos]

If an Arab (albeit a Latinized one with a deacde of distinguished service) Phillip the Arab could become Emperor, why not a Vandal? I can think of 3 Emperors who had no Roman blood. Or to be more specific, none of their great grandparents were Roman, but in some cases their parents were citizens, so does that count as Roman blood? Of course, all were raised as Romans.

A lot of the 3rd century emperors weren't Italian-born, but all free men in the empire by the time of the Edict of Caracalla were Roman citizens, so Phillip the Arab, Aurelian (Illyrian), and Maximinius Thrax (Thracian) were all Roman citizens, so the fact that they weren't from Italy didn't matter by that point. However, by the time of Stilicho, the Empire had established a policy of settling Germans within their borders without giving them citizenship or forcing them to abandon their loyalties to native kings. Imo, the only way for Germans to become emperor would be for Theodosius to eschew that policy with respect to the Therivingi Goths after Adrianople, but I don't know much about the politics of the late empire, so I'm hoping for someone else to have a better idea

 

[Alex Zetsu]

Can we have a 401 POD? Citizenship wasn't given en block like the Edict of Caracalla, but it was still given on an individual basis by low ranking officials (I don't know how low, but there were thousands who were authorized to do so, so it must be really low). I don't see why Stilicho can't be granted citizenship.

 

[Flavius Iulius Nepos]

What about Tiberius III? ok he wasn't emperor of the west but he was acclaimed in the west.

 

[Avrorrange]

Well, technically by Roman law, lineage was strictly patrilineal, so the ethnicity or birthplace of his mother would be irrelevant, and he would be considered a German under Roman law.

Well I don't doubt he, or any of the other magistri milita could have forcibly become emperor, the question I'm trying to answer is whether or not a German could become the *legitimate emperor* i.e. could they be recognized by the Eastern Emperor as the legitimate emperor of the West. Because IOTL, a German did become emperor - Odoacer, but when that happened, historians demarcate it as the end of the WRE. My question is, could a German become emperor without abolishing the WRE as an official institution

His father was most likely given Roman citizenship.

 

[Atamolos]

What about Tiberius III? ok he wasn't emperor of the west but he was acclaimed in the west.

Fair enough, but he was deposed after only a few years, and he didn't reign until around 2 centuries after the WRE collapsed. It's a proof of concept for a German on the throne, just a little late, and under different circumstances (the invading barbarians by this time were the Bulgars and the Arabs, rather than Germanic peoples)

 

[Flavius Iulius Nepos]

Fair enough, but he was deposed after only a few years, and he didn't reign until around 2 centuries after the WRE collapsed. It's a proof of concept for a German on the throne, just a little late, and under different circumstances (the invading barbarians by this time were the Bulgars and the Arabs, rather than Germanic peoples)

I know, I was trying to cheat. However if you don't mind a germanic emperor with roman blood, Eucherius could be your man, since he is related to the Theodosian dynasty.

 

[Hvalrossen]

Well I don't doubt he, or any of the other magistri milita could have forcibly become emperor, the question I'm trying to answer is whether or not a German could become the *legitimate emperor* i.e. could they be recognized by the Eastern Emperor as the legitimate emperor of the West. Because IOTL, a German did become emperor - Odoacer, but when that happened, historians demarcate it as the end of the WRE. My question is, could a German become emperor without abolishing the WRE as an official institution

Stilicho had some family relations to the Roman emperors, both the emperor of WRE and ERE. These family relations should help Stilicho in gaining acceptance from the ERE, incase of the emperor of WRE dies and Stilicho takes his place.

 

[Hvalrossen]

His father was most likely given Roman citizenship.

But were he(Stilicho's father) accepted by Roman Italians as Roman?

 

[Avrorrange]

But were he(Stilicho's father) accepted by Roman Italians as Roman?

Who cares about them if you have the army?Plenty of Roman emperors were not ‘Roman’ by the traditional sense.It’s why I’ve often said that the Italian nobility needs to be purged again in the 5th century.

 

[RyuDrago]

I wish to throw my two cents over the matter.

When Stilicho was born, the Vandals were settled in Pannonia, on the two sides of the Danube, and under Constantine became Foederati in 330. The main issue here is if they were or not subject to dedictio, technically they should have been because they requested assistance to live in the Empire due to the Goth pressure hence they became foederati in sign of weakness and submission in front of the Empire. Therefore technically they shouldn't have access to Roman citizenship due to the terms of the Constitutio Antoniana.

However, after Adrianople the institution of dedictio felt less towards the Goths and is possible other Foederates could have benefit from it.

Plus from 330 to Adrianople passed over 50 years, plently time for two generations of Vandals to be partially integrated in the Roman society, because they served in the army. Plus Stilicho's father was an auxiliary - hence in theory after his service could have received the citizenship and so his son, whatever he was born or not yet.

Besides, the fact Stilicho had as name a Roman one, spoke fluently Latin and Greek, was grown as a Roman etc. are more than clear indications he was a Roman citizen. His mother probably had a strong influence on him - probably she was quite an important woman or member of some small but yet noble family; his father's merits alone would unlikely made him have such a fast career without some maternal input. Is bad we don't know about her.