AHC: Peerless Air Ministry

[steamboy]

Also Chamberlain was deeply unwell and IIRC he knew he was dying at this point. But yeah that makes a lot of sense. The problem was that at the time of Norway it caught the WAllies by surprise and the RN was still quite dispersed, Furious was in the Med, Renown was at Gibraltar as was the Ark and many cruisers and DDs were out on patrol stations.

So here the RN's probably going to have Courageous and Glorious as its main CV's with Ark under repair, not sure of Hoods state at the time, she seems to have missed the Norway campaign, Renown's in the area, Warspite, Rodney and some R's making up the balance of the big guns. I think Eagle was in the Far East or Indian Ocean at this point, not sure of Hermes location either.

 

[Derwit]

If my memory serves the British where preparing their own invasion (sorry occupation of Norway to save it from the Germans) at the same time the Germans struck. Many cruisers and destroyers where in port taking on supplies and troupes. Once German intentions became clear these ships where unloaded ready to give battle but this delay allowed the Germans to land their forces relatively unmolested. With better air reconnaissance it is possible the ships could be cleared earlier and a major victory won.

 

[sonofpegasus]

OTL one problem was that in the vile weather then prevailing the RN interpreted the German ship movements as an Atlantic Breakout rather than an invasion of Norway. This meant that counter moves were in the wrong direction and valuable time was lost.

 

[Astrodragon]

Sadly due to the weather more airpower wont really help the naval battles for Norway unless ASV is available.
By the time the weather had improved the initial landings had been made and the KM was rather depleted.

 

[Crowbar Six]

Also Chamberlain was deeply unwell and IIRC he knew he was dying at this point. But yeah that makes a lot of sense. The problem was that at the time of Norway it caught the WAllies by surprise and the RN was still quite dispersed, Furious was in the Med, Renown was at Gibraltar as was the Ark and many cruisers and DDs were out on patrol stations.

So here the RN's probably going to have Courageous and Glorious as its main CV's with Ark under repair, not sure of Hoods state at the time, she seems to have missed the Norway campaign, Renown's in the area, Warspite, Rodney and some R's making up the balance of the big guns. I think Eagle was in the Far East or Indian Ocean at this point, not sure of Hermes location either.

The RN kept expecting the KM to make a breakout into the Atlantic with their available heavy ships, they expected the heavies to be escorted so far by their Destroyers who would then break off and return to Germany. So when the Germans launched the attack on Norway all the initial moves matched the RN's prediction for a breakout not an invasion, it took a while for the RN to set aside its preconceptions and react.

 

[Aber]

Are the Fencible Army Nursing Yeomanry and Cambridge University Naval Training Squadron both true?

First Aid Nursing Yeomanry, yes

https://www.fany.org.uk/history

 

[Some Bloke]

The First Sea Lord is the professional head of Navy, a serving officer, Churchill, as the responsible minister, was First Lord of the Admiralty.

 

[sonofpegasus]

I sometimes mix the two terms up by mistake despite half a century of using the them!!

 

[sonofpegasus]

7.5 Catching Breath

The whole argument over the legality of bombing private property had to Sir Phillip seemed completely spurious and if the British or other Countries politicians who thought for one moment that the people who had orchestrated the destruction of Guernica in Spain and the bombing of Warsaw and countless other towns and cities in Poland would hesitate from raining indiscriminate destruction down on then in time he feared would be proved so very wrong.

Sir Phillip feared that the lull before the storm could not last much longer especially after the Altmark incident in mid February. He thought the planned mining of the inner leads by the navy might well spur the Germans into measures to protect their iron ore shipments. Meanwhile he would keep the pressure up from the AM to continue to improve the equipment in use and provide new and better equipment as soon as possible. To that end Sir Phillip had had the AM chasing projects with the various manufacturers’ and the MAP riding herd on them regarding production of existing types and particularly dispersal of development and design capability. Production was already dispersed to a certain extent via the new shadow factories and the loss in production in moving existing facilities was not tenable. Therefore design and development facilities based at known company locations seemed an obvious target and a weak point. Hence arrangements were made with the major manufactures to move a least a proportion of their design and development work to dispersed locations, Even if that location was another existing company factory or office. Hence Supermarine had disperse development of their bombers to Eastleigh, Hawkers had dispersed development and some design from Kingston to Langley and De Haviland had moved the work on the mosquito to Salisbury Hall in Herefordshire.

The last six months had also given time for the AM working with various civilian experts to work on a number of contingency plans based upon a variety of possible, if not probable war scenarios based upon potential German actions. Discussing these plans with Churchill it was agree that the Admiralty would revue the AM/RAF scenarios and the AM would do the same for the navies war-plans and this would at least hopefully generate a consensus as to how to react to potential events. Commencing in November a number of table top wargames had been held jointly with the Admiralty and the WD had had observers along as well. The scenario that included the complete occupation of France by the Germans had been ridiculed by the Army observers as a waste of time, as France would never surrender.

Having already war gamed a western front campaign based upon the furthest penetration achieved by the Germans in the Great War and seen how the effect of the Luftwaffe having bases in Belgium altered the UK air defence requirements and the effect on the channel convoys it was impressed upon the scoffing Army officers that examining the worst case scenarios such as the invasion of the neutral countries like Holland and Demark and /or the loss of France was only prudent.

Since the Altmark incident the practicalities of an invasion of Norway had received much more scrutiny and various assumptions made with contingency plans drawn up. These mainly concerned how Maritime Command would be used in support of the Navy but did also look at the practicalities of sending fighters and other aircraft to work from Norwegian airfields if the Norwegian Government requested such assistance.

At least with Ark royal repaired and re-equipped after here damage sustained back in September the RN had all their fleet carriers available. Though never at risk from sinking the two torpedoes exploding almost simultaneously close aboard either side of her, as she steamed at nearly 30 knots had caused considerable damage including opening some seams and damaging a shaft. The subsequent flooding had been exacerbated by problems getting power back to the pumps and damage to the pipes themselves. Extra generators including the diesel one originally planned for but not fitted had now been installed and her pumping and electrical mains rerouted or doubled up. Though he had not seen the details Winston had discussed the basics with him during a particularly boring vote in the house that required their presence, to be seen, supporting the government’s policies.

Winterbottom had also been helpful in giving him a briefing regarding the implications of a German assault on Norway. Winterbottom had asked after the progress with the De Haviland Mosquito as he and Mr Cotton were sure that it would make a much better photo reconnaissance aircraft than any other type currently available. The prototype had commenced flight trials in the new year and despite some buffeting problems at high speed the trials were going well and it would appear that it would live up to the expectations of De Haviland. The first production version was going to be a fighter/bomber and subsequent to the completion of service trials they were expected to be in service by the years end.

The proposal to mine the Norwegian coastal waters had perforce necessitated a concentration of effort by Maritime Command to carryout reconnaissance flights and regular patrols over the northern north sea. For this purpose a squadron of LRMP Stirlings were moved from Prestwick up to RAF Haston to join the Hudson squadron currently there. The main reason for this was that the Hudson aircraft were not yet equipped with ASV sets, the nearest aircraft with ASV sets had been the Maritime Command squadron of Flamingos based further south at Lossiemouth. A further squadron of Hudsons were based at RAF Leuchars in Fife. There were plans to transfer a squadron of torpedo carrying Hampdens to RAF Dalcross near Inverness as the hard runway had just been completed and the first fighter and training units had not yet arrived. Some of the fighters and training aircraft going to Dalcross were being transferred from RAF Kinloss so that there was room there for a further squadron of Stirling’s if the German navy contested the RN mining of the Norwegian waters. The department of works and the AM had already surveyed further potential airfields in the region at Milltown, Nether Dallachy and Banff, these could either be used by Training Command or for a continuing Norwegian campaign. Of course it would take time to establish these new airfields but at least the land had been surveyed and the requisitioning process started.

 

[Tjyorksgeezer]

Good to see the importance of Maritime Command being recognised and it getting some of the resources it needs, would have saved a lot of good ships, good men and vital goods OTL but the bomber barrons would rather lose thirty plus aircraft and their crews on every raid over Germany than "waste" them patrolling around convoys.

 

[merlin]

Was someone's (civil Servant or politician) outburst of 'you can't do that it's private property' really taken seriously OTL, or did people laugh behind his back?

One thing worthy of mention, when the vulnerability of important factories etc., is considered is camouflage. How great attention was made, to disguise landmarks, and the shapes of buildings so that they wouldn't be recognised from the air.

Interesting about 'War Games' believe the Germans used them, not sure that the British did, is that your creation? Good idea?

 

[sonofpegasus]

the use of realistic exercises ITTL, rather than achieving a pre determined outcome as so often happened in OTL, and the 'war gaming' of scenarios is an outcome of the wider adoption of OR and scientific examination of tangible results as espoused by the PAM.

 

[Derwit]

Before everything kicks off. What is the RAF strength going to be in France in May? Will cannon armed fighters be present? I was wondering because in the desperate fighting that is about to begin it will only take a squadron of cannon armed hurricanes to strafe a Panzer column for a potential game changing light bulb moment to happen.

 

[Glyndwr01]

Was someone's (civil Servant or politician) outburst of 'you can't do that it's private property' really taken seriously OTL, or did people laugh behind his back?

One thing worthy of mention, when the vulnerability of important factories etc., is considered is camouflage. How great attention was made, to disguise landmarks, and the shapes of buildings so that they wouldn't be recognised from the air.

Interesting about 'War Games' believe the Germans used them, not sure that the British did, is that your creation? Good idea?

There was quite a bit of British money invested in the German industry by British financial institutions and private individuals (including politicians of all parties).

 

[Derwit]

There was quite a bit of British money invested in the German industry by British financial institutions and private individuals (including politicians of all parties).

I think it had more to do with not being the first to do it (like gas warfare in WW1). Once the Germans damaged some civilian targets in the west the gloves came off.

There was also the fear widely believed OTL of the knock out blow which led the British government to order over a million card board coffins to bury the dead caused by air oak bombing.

Certainly there was a deliberate attempt to paint the Nazis as monsterous aggressors (rightly so, although they didn't know for sure in 1940) and the western democracy's as reluctant belligerents in the international neutral press (most noticeably the USA). Not being first to target civilians plays to this audience.

Hindsight shows that pandering to US public opinion was worth more than dropping a few bombs inaccurately over Germany. Although I wonder what effect Germany retaliatory bombing would have had on allied moral, particularly the French. Certainly after Coventry and the London Blitz there was a hardening of British public resolve. Could the same have happened to the French if Paris got heavily bombed, and if so could this have altered the outcome of the battle of France?

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

There was also the fear widely believed OTL of the knock out blow which led the British government to order over a million card board coffins to bury the dead caused by air oak bombing.

AFAIK/IIRC that was one reason why IOTL the British Government concentrated on the largest possible bomber force in the pre-war expansion schemes. It wanted to deter Germany from bombing the UK using the fear of retaliation by the would be RAF Bomber Command. It was effectively Mutual Assured Destruction without atom bombs.

The First Report of the Defence Requirements Committee which was published in 1934 recommended building up the RAF in the Far East and expanding the Fleet Air Arm to "show a tooth" to the Japanese. However, for the home based RAF the same report only recommended completing the scheme for a Home Defence Force of 594 fighters and bombers in 52 squadrons that had been approved in 1923 for completion in 1928, but the completion date had been put back to 1938.

However, Scheme A approved in July 1934 only approved the addition of one squadron in the Far East over those already approved and 42 extra aircraft for the FAA over the currently approved total of 171 (or 174). Meanwhile the Home Defence Force was to be expanded from the 448 fighters and bombers in 39 squadrons in March 1934 to 836 fighters and bombers in 71 squadrons by 31st March 1939. Though it also increased the would be Coastal Command from 15 aircraft in 4 squadrons in March 1934 to 64 aircraft in 8 squadrons by March 1939.

Scheme C approved in May 1935 (IIRC in response to the Luftwaffe "coming out" earlier in the year) was for 1,260 fighters and bombers in 105 squadrons in the Home Defence Force by 31st March 1937. There was no change to the FAA and overseas commands whose completion date was still 31st March 1939, but it did include more general reconnaissance and army co-operation aircraft in the UK. AFAIK the bomber force approved in the scheme was to match the bomber force the Luftwaffe was expected to have in 1937.

Scheme F approved in February 1936 increased the Home Defence Force to 1,422 fighters and bombers in 100 squadrons by 31st March 1939. However, the number of fighters remained the same at 420 (in 30 squadrons of 14 instead of 35 of 12). Again the increase from 840 to 1,022 bombers was to match the number of bombers the Luftwaffe was expected to have in 1939. This scheme approved the formation of the squadrons for the Far East originally proposed by the First D.R.C. Report plus an expansion of the FAA from the 159 (or 162) that existed in March 1934 to 312 by March 1939 and 504 by March 1942. It also approved a big increase in the number of reserve aircraft so that the RAF could maintain it's first-line strength while the aircraft industry was put on a war footing, the Shadow Factory Scheme to build them and the formation of the Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve to provide the aircrew.

Scheme H proposed in January 1937 (but not approved) was a reaction to an upward revision of the number of bombers the Luftwaffe was expected to have in 1939. The Home Defence Force under that scheme was to have 2,065 fighters and bombers in 119 squadrons by March 1939, with a further expansion to 2,135 fighters and bombers in 124 squadrons as soon as possible afterwards. As it wasn't possible to increase the production of aircraft and aircrew by March 1939 some of the increase over Scheme F was to be achieved by delaying the formation of the 10 overseas squadrons approved in Scheme F.

It wasn't just the RAF and British Government that were obsessed with strategic bombing the Alexander Korda film Things to Come, which was written by H.G. Wells, begins with an air raid on "Everytown."

 

[sonofpegasus]

Yes the fear of the 'Bomber' was profound in the interwar period and is why so much time and energy was invested by so many politicians of every stripe at the Geneva disarmament talks in trying to either ban bomber aircraft completely or limit their range and payload.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Yes the fear of the 'Bomber' was profound in the interwar period and is why so much time and energy was invested by so many politicians of every stripe at the Geneva disarmament talks in trying to either ban bomber aircraft completely or limit their range and payload.

Though AFAIK it was only the British that took such efforts seriously. There's a passage in Volume I of Grand Strategy that says the only criticism that the British received at the Geneva disarmament talks was that if anything Britain had disarmed too much. Or words to that effect, because as usual I couldn't find it when I went to check it.

AFAIK Specification B.9/32 which produced the Hampden and Wellington was issued at about the same time that the USAAC issued the specification that produced the B-17 and Germany issued the specification that produced the Do19 and Ju89.

Had the British Government not been so keen to "ban the bomber" or at least place limits on it the TTL Spec. B.9/32 might have produced 4-engine aircraft. So the TTL Wellington might effectively be the OTL Warwick, but with 4 Pegasus, 4 Merlin or 4 Hercules engines.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Yes the fear of the 'Bomber' was profound in the interwar period and is why so much time and energy was invested by so many politicians of every stripe at the Geneva disarmament talks in trying to either ban bomber aircraft completely or limit their range and payload.

IIRC there was a serious effort to have an international ban on all forms of military aviation. The stumbling blocks were what to do with civil aviation and the British who wanted to keep some aircraft for imperial air policing.

 

[Perturabo]

7.5 Catching Breath
The last six months had also given time for the AM working with various civilian experts to work on a number of contingency plans based upon a variety of possible, if not probable war scenarios based upon potential German actions. Discussing these plans with Churchill it was agree that the Admiralty would revue the AM/RAF scenarios and the AM would do the same for the navies war-plans and this would at least hopefully generate a consensus as to how to react to potential events. Commencing in November a number of table top wargames had been held jointly with the Admiralty and the WD had had observers along as well. The scenario that included the complete occupation of France by the Germans had been ridiculed by the Army observers as a waste of time, as France would never surrender.

Having already war gamed a western front campaign based upon the furthest penetration achieved by the Germans in the Great War and seen how the effect of the Luftwaffe having bases in Belgium altered the UK air defence requirements and the effect on the channel convoys it was impressed upon the scoffing Army officers that examining the worst case scenarios such as the invasion of the neutral countries like Holland and Demark and /or the loss of France was only prudent.

Hm. Better Dunkirk evacuation, then? Would be a good time to figure out the Panzer-column strafing with fighter cannons.